SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome! You are listening to the CRM Success Show, where you will hear from CRM executives who have overseen some of the most interesting and complex CRM implementations. Your hosts, David Mossri and Kira Whitey, will be bringing you real stories, real insight. Follow along on social media for updates on new episode releases, exclusive content, and much more. Enjoy the show and thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Welcome to the CRM Success Show. Today we're talking with Hector Carballosa, Director of CRM, ERP, and RevOps at Inav. Welcome, Hector.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Hey, thanks for having me, Mass. Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Nice to see you, Hector. So so um obviously you and Maz uh have known each other for a little while. You've worked together in in different capacities, but uh nice to have got to know you uh so far, Hector, through uh through the podcast. So thanks again for joining joining us as a guest today.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Oh yeah, super happy to be here. Can't think of a better way to cap off the the week. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Um so Hector, uh super interesting background. Uh I was personally excited as well to to have this one for the reasons we discussed prior about aviation and having an interest in that space. So why don't you just tell us first and foremost um who is Hector Cabiosa?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, sure thing. I can tell you a little bit about my Salesforce journey and my journey into like the wider kind of tech ecosystem and how that came about. Um, you know, I kind of think of my journey as a little bit of a non-traditional one because I didn't go to a four-year institution pursue a degree and then kind of had into the workforce. I was uh really interested in looking towards kind of joining the workforce immediately and had uh proceed a career with um the Navy. So I looked into uh joining the Navy and ended up enlisting when I was uh 17 moving forward with that and um going down to nuclear propulsion track. That was super exciting. It was really interesting. I thought I was gonna be doing it for the majority of my life. It was an eight-year contract and kind of had that uh thrown to the side when uh the legislative situation at that time, the atmosphere kind of changed and led to a bunch of delays with my security clearance. So I was kind of left in a legislative limbo, had no job at that time because I kind of had been focused and dedicated to preparing myself for this kind of career, and so was left kind of in you know, scrambling to find employment while I waited to hear back from the government about what was gonna happen. So I ended up uh finding a job working at an FAA repair station, so super interesting uh industry. They basically repair aircraft components that repair station in particular did pneumatics, hydraulics, and electromechanical. So you can think of like all the different uh components that make up an aircraft. You know, they're obviously not gonna fly forever. Those pieces need to get maintained and they need to be maintained to certain standards to ensure the safety of all the uh passengers and the aircrew, etc. So, because of that, it's kind of spawned this entire regulated industry, you know, it's dedicated to servicing the aircraft in a way that's compliant with uh laws and uh regulations. So I kind of got thrust into that whole environment, didn't have a lot of exposure to it prior. Uh, had a lot of interest in technology, had always been very interested in technology and spent a lot of time um teaching myself how to code when I was younger and working through different projects, but hadn't had a chance to really apply it anywhere because I was looking at a kind of a distinct route there uh prior. Uh but yeah, once I had the chance to work there, I really, really enjoyed it. It was it was very interesting because um kind of got the whole gamut. It was like a white-collar operation on one side where they're actually handling the sales and um agreeing, getting these people with the aircraft to agree to send these components, and then you actually had the mechanics repairing and working through through all that. Tech side came in where they needed very custom systems that to run this entire operation because this is obviously not a kind of off-the-shelf business, it's not like services or something, and all those regulations come into play. So they hired me as a temp employee, and I worked a lot on their ERP doing data cleanup, doing uh kind of like product lists, then started getting more into Power BI visualization, understanding that it was a SQL database. We engaged with some consultants at the time, and they really widened my eyes to the larger uh space and kind of got me thinking about uh ERPs in a different framework. So they introduced me to the concepts of like management information systems and trying to optimize the ERP further than what was uh the out of the box and tying it heavily into the processes and things of that nature. It was very limited though. It was uh Oracle-based ERP, not a lot of documentation uh for it, tremendous market consolidation in the industry, but uh it was very, you know, it was on-premise, it was clunky. And uh yeah, so that's pretty much where I was beginning to cut my teeth and um had an opportunity come in via LinkedIn where there was a company that was a startup that had been around for a few years and were working on a Salesforce-based product that would essentially replace that on-premise ERP. And uh yeah, took a took a leap of faith and ended up joining the team because uh I thought that there was a you know serious use case for it, could see the vision and uh you know the the applications for it. So that's where I got introduced to Salesforce.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Fantastic. So there is a um slightly different story, how you got your first role in ERP um and how that came about. I don't know if you want to share that your first uh career go, if you like, and then what happened and you know, because people's we hear a lot about you know people accidentally falling into this industry, right? And I mean you did accidentally fall into this. Um what happened?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Yeah, definitely. So I mean, on the clearance side, like uh I thought everything was gonna be gravy. Uh ironically, I'd actually enlisted with my um uh my a fellow peer of mine at the time, so we we went through together and we actually went through the whole selection process and getting cleared and everything else. Pretty much signed our contracts and we're just waiting to ship out. And that's uh when that administration at the time kind of updated the um the state sponsors of terrorists and put my parents' country of origin on there. I I was uh you know native-born American citizen, so I didn't think it would affect it, but did put me kind of in a legal limbo, which was really unexpected. My buddy ended up leaving well before me, uh, so I was completely shocked because we were kind of on the same timeline. But since he was from a different uh his family was from a different country, he didn't get caught in that kind of situation. So yeah, it was super like was very unexpected. Never thought I would be working in tech or URPs or aviation. Uh so that kind of just came out of nowhere. But um, you know, once I started working with it, uh seeing the potential for it and establishing myself in it, I really uh was grateful that it ended up happening. So sometimes life does you a curveball, but it works out nicely.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, it does. It does indeed. Um cool, very cool. Um so INAV. Um what do INAV do exactly? Uh we know they're a sub subsidiary uh of Mysivishi um in the aviation space, but what what exactly do they do? How would you describe it to your you know, niece or nephew? What what what what do what does what does Hector do at INAV?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, for sure. So uh INAV essentially what we do is we provide material to uh commercial engine, commercial engine users. So essentially anybody that has uh aircraft and have uh wide wide body aircraft, mostly um the CFM56 platform engines are what we're supplying. So anything from a fan fan blade to this data assembly, things of that nature, that's really our core focus, supplying the material. It's a very like kind of supply chain-oriented business. I think an interesting part is that you can't really source this material through organic channels. You have to go out there and buy you know these whole assets yourselves and then turn it into these uh you know the sellable inventory. So we essentially seek out assets, piece them out, and then ship those pieces out to our customers. And we use Salesforce to do every aspect of our business from tracking the asset to you know managing the inventory that comes out of it, valueing it, sending it to the uh to the customer, quoting it, all every single aspect of our business process is on Salesforce. Uh, what do I do at INAV? I make sure that those processes uh run smoothly. If there's an opportunity for improvement or there's any change, such as a couple months ago, for example, the regulatory environment changed with the introduction of additional tariffs. You know, our comp our business had to respond and implement a tariff model that would print, you know, and provide visibility to the customers on those tariffs. So it's a mix of reacting to market conditions and making sure our systems are you know set up to that and then continuously refining, optimizing our internal processes and thinking how the people, processes, and technology can go hand in hand to have a better and more automated business as you know the landscape continues to change, especially in 2026.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Amazing. And um, your role isn't just limited to Salesforce. We know your your remit includes ERP and RevOps, but but again, from a techstat perspective, we're talking Slack, MuleShop, uh Azure, um Microsoft, other any of the products we're missing?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Um, you know, a lot of people lump Slack into Salesforce now, but we're like heavy Slack users, big champions of Slack, and we think that there is, you know, it's gonna be the system of action and the lines between the traditional Salesforce um CRM is kind of being blurred. RERP sits natively on Salesforce, so that's why a lot of the uh development is focused heavily around there, and then we use Azure to kind of extend that.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Perfect. And then uh lastly on INAV before before we move on to uh next topic, um how long have I nav been around in business? How big are they as a business? Obviously, maybe if you're not within aviation, you you might not have heard of iNav. So what what is their presence like?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, so INAV was founded in 2004. It was acquired by our parent organization in Ireland, ELFC, in 2023. And I think the Mitsubishi acquisition of both of us came very shortly after in uh some period in 2024, if I'm not uh mistaken. Or they may have yeah, yeah, that's uh that was the scenario there. And um yeah, it's a very interesting company, it's very uh forward under adoption of technology. I think you know the aviation industry is paper-based, uh old industry, it's moved slowly because of you know different uh governmental hurdles, regulation, people get worried about making change because of those things. So INAV has been kind of on the forefront of it. They were one of the first adopters of the Salesforce product that we work a lot with called AvSight, and uh you know they were switching from a legacy on-premise system, they adopted it early, they've made additional investments and building out a department and kind of focusing on on being forward-thinking about it. So um I think that differentiates it in a lot of ways from uh a traditional maybe mom and pop business that you would find in the aviation industry. Uh so yeah, that's I think the big differentiator.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Yeah, so uh yeah, tell us a bit about AFSight, because I can guarantee you no one has heard of it. Um, or very few of our listeners have heard of it. I certainly never heard of it. Um yeah, so you what what it what exactly does it do?

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, sure thing. And um, I think a lot of people are used to kind of going the traditional route with Salesforce, which is you reach out to Salesforce, you you know, scope uh scope your business out with a solutions engineer, they pitch you some licenses and you purchase it. Maybe an industry cloud if there's something specifically built out, like health cloud, financial services, or things of that nature. Or perhaps you reach out to a consulting group, they suggest Salesforce as a solution to your problems, and they help you with the implementation and kind of despine like these bespoke processes for your organization. Uh, you know, we've seen a big trend towards industry clouds, and that's great because a lot of the functionality comes pre-packaged out of the box. So, where does AvSite kind of sit in there? It's a third party, very similar to an industry cloud. They've decided uh that um, you know, to address the needs of the aviation market, they've gone ahead and built out a full stack URP, and it's available on the Salesforce platform, and it's an OEM partner, so you can purchase Salesforce through them and get the fully outside feature base while being still sitting on the Salesforce platform. So you you can get a lot of the kind of existing workflows that would be standardized across the aviation industry without having to go to a consulting partner to build them out for you, or necessarily, you know, there is no existing aviation cloud from Salesforce at the moment, so going through kind of a bespoke build-out process or something of that nature.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

So um OEM for people who don't know stands for I believe original equipment manufacturer and then kind of got reused for software, even though it technically is not too equipment in the software in the software industry. But it's basically it's basically what licensed and resold um but not necessarily rebranded. Um right, so it'll basically be like a Salesforce managed package installed on Salesforce, but then sold at a unit. So you just get the org pre-installed. That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yes, exactly. So the org is spun up with the package pre-installed and an AC consistent special contractual restrictions where you're mostly centered around the package functionality. You still have access to a lot of Salesforce features, obviously, all the native things like flows and process builders for automation. Not that process builders are relevant anymore, but you know, but back in the day. And uh, you know, some of those standard objects that are kind of crossed. So like things like account and contact obviously are gonna are gonna be uh leveraged in both. So it's a really interesting you know scenario. And in this particular application, this actually offers the full suite of capabilities. So everything from inventory management to sales, um invoicing, managing like the whole kind of life cycle of the uh of these transactions, from not necessarily like complex transactions like an opportunity, but a lot of like different order, like small, you know, commodity-based uh uh orders that aren't necessarily like a complex commercial notion. People are coming in, they're getting priced, they're getting the inventory sold out, moved, uh, very similar to other applications that have come out in the space, things like Lidify, which is essentially the same thing, but for lawyers and is Access a case management system where they can do all aspects of their of their work, be it triaging the case, case intake, uh managing the case, assigning work related to it, et cetera. So AFSI is just a very large package because the aviation industry is very complex and regulated. So it covers like a very large span. Even our usage of it, you know, really isn't the full usage of the package because we don't do things like heavy maintenance, or we're not actually maintaining a fleet of aircraft, or we're not doing so I see, and the package has all those, you know, kind of different capabilities to to manage that. So your footprint can be kind of as big or as large as you need it inside of it, but it has all those like pre-built workflows that would take kind of like a long time or a lot of custom work to put together.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

So uh uh Av-Site has the ERP built in to it as well. So um maybe this is a stupid question, probably, because I don't know the industry nearly as well as you do. Like what like you guys are just selling parts, like what why wouldn't you use like an auto parts type reseller package where there's something there very specific to aviation, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

I mean, yeah, it's uh it's a regulatory requirement of the industry and a lot of like the things that stem from it. So there's like a lot of very specific like certifications that the parts need to have. You basically like you can't just take a part off the shelf and sell it, you need to give it a total history and trace back. Uh, you know, there's a lot of like aviation-specific marketplaces, like EDI things that need to get pulled in and the information needs to get aggregated. Some people are doing like services, and there's a lot of off-the-shelf like ERPs that have been you know built, and like some some legacy players, then pretty much kind of take an automotive one and put a skin on it and work a lot on it to perfect it. But you you end up, you know, that only gets you probably like 60% of the way. So some of those things and are similar from like uh a process point of view, but like often not the same uh you know regulatory environment, so big distinction there.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Real cool. So um how so how how does how does like the versioning work? Like is there like an ultimate edition, enterprise edition?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Oh it's actually pretty interesting. Yeah, you just buy it and you get the whole package. So as it stands, it's just like one price for the uh you know, it's price per user per month, and you can just yeah, you know, you get access to the managed package, and the managed package has the full capabilities, and you can use it as you see fit.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Um so tell us about cost. Because I've heard a lot of I guess at least in other industries, I don't know about ABSight, that it's actually cheaper to buy an OEM, often cheaper because I guess the OEM gets a bulk price or a strip down very limited to what you need. It's almost like a way to buy specifically what you need as opposed to buy everything. Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah, for sure. I think in some ways it does reduce our total cost footprint because replicating the same functionality would cause us to purchase like a lot of licensing that on platform that maybe isn't as necessary with the current you know configuration that we have with the um with the package. For example, I think like the sales mission. Uh you know, we don't really have a sales mission that maps well to the opportunities. It's not a long commercial process. It's like a lot of lot of short, you know, order-based items, a lot of like pricing. It doesn't play well into the kind of price books, products, opportunity products framework that's there. Uh it we would also have to like essentially get everybody, you know, kind of these enhanced sales cloud licenses and put them on the enterprise edition. So costs begin to you know stack up, I think, through the conventional Salesforce implementation, where you're looking at using one of those uh clouds and then trying to customize it a bit. Plus, obviously all the billable time or the internal resources that you'll have to bring in to kind of adjust it and bridge the gap. So I think that's where like the the distinction on like the pricing comes out, uh, you know, really, really clear.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

So in terms of um of sight, so um to go backwards a little bit in terms of your personal journey, um, there's a reason you know the product very well, right? Um that's because you spent over two and a half years there. Um so so you know the product inside out, um, but again, for you know, I I don't know the product, and you know, we've we've never had anyone in the aviation space uh on our podcast yet before. Um so in in terms of the product itself, um so so we understand you know the benefits it would bring and who potentially the customers might be, aviation parts distributors and defense contractors and and and you know companies like yourself, um, who generally have high RFQ volume, complex inventory, things like that, uh with the the compliance uh requirements. Is there any like competitor on the market to have site, or is it kind of like it's such a such a niche uh market that you would just go with the dominant player, maybe like Litafy, you would use Litafy or you'd use Rootstock if you're in that industry, like it's just uh what one one company only type offering?

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Uh you know, not at all. Like there's a lot, like there's a lot of active players in this space, but there's nobody else that offers a Salesforce solution, which I think is why it's such a attractive option for a lot of companies where you get the benefits of being on the Salesforce platform and maybe not having to tool up existing resources, learn new languages, learn kind of like you know, put on that maintenance burden, etc. So there's like other players like uh that are providing um web-based applications, either on their own platforms, building stuff on things like AWS or other platforms like Azure infrastructure as well, and kind of hosting these applications and providing services. And there's also like the older legacy players that have provided services, such as that original Oracle ERP, where I started out that have kind of adapted into a SaaS model and begin to distribute it uh via the web as well and uh kind of modernize that infrastructure. But there's no direct competitor on the Salesforce platform, and um, you know, obviously wouldn't be wouldn't make any sense for there to be because uh the the amount of time and incumbency uh Have site has. And I think that's like a real competitive advantage. Like when I'm looking at as a director and I'm companies asking me to evaluate software for a fledgling business or a business looking to do a huge transformation and change really how the way they're working, be it like if they're heavily paper-based, et cetera. And I'm looking at a couple of you know RFPs and I have to sit down and purchase Salesforce for CRM functionalities and patch it back into my ERP, anyways, versus I can kind of buy the whole stack and add on licensing or capabilities as I needed, kind of seems like a no-brainer for me, especially when the total cost footprint um is uh significantly lowered, especially versus traditional uh kind of you know on-premise solutions or or likewise the new SaaS offerings?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yeah, okay. Um so so so essentially you're in a Salesforce-based ERP, right? Um specific for the aviation space. So um how difficult is it out of site as a product? Um, and in terms of like, you know, when you're hiring, you're bringing on a team of admins or developers, um, like how much different is it to the Salesforce core platform? I know it's built on Salesforce like every other ISV, but it sounds like it's very uh complex in comparison, just a quick research. Like, is it really Salesforce? Like how much of the percentage would you liken it to a Salesforce, sales or service cloud?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Yeah, or I'd say it's like 50-50. So like a lot of the same thing, you know, a lot of the same core skills carry over. So people that are great at flows and great at writing Apex are gonna be able to write great flows in Apex, and I think that's great. But you really have to retool the way you think about your solutioning and maybe how you approach problems, right? Like it requires a lot of research into the existing capabilities of the platform. You don't want to end up duplicating functionality that's already out there that they're providing and is maybe hooked into you know additional things that uh you're not considering, right? So versus, you know, when you're working on an evergreen uh greenfield implementation or you're working in your own org from that's been just proven to you by Salesforce, you have full control over the logic and you know, you can have full visibility into what's occurring, so you don't have any of those uh considerations. You know, in theory, you have well documented features and things that you've built out. So it's interesting when you hire, it's a small pool if you're looking for prior experience, and then if you're looking to kind of skill up somebody new, which we've been in the process of doing that for what roughly like a year and a half. Um you know, so someone that's net new, not a ton of Salesforce experience prior, so it's a little bit different. But I think it's um it's a lot of understanding like the data model and like the difference between the data model. People are very used to like working with certain, you know, like you work in sales cloud, it's the opportunities, opportunity products, you know that inside out, how it all ties together. You come to an application like this, it's completely not applicable. You kind of have to re-relearn how the uh Salesforce is uh laid out and and the different um aspects of it. But I think a lot of the core skills carry over, and if people are open to you know scaling up and doing research and treating it as like no different than any other industry cloud, they can find a lot of success in uh adopting those tools. I think there's a lot of um new emerging ones like Rootstock, who uh it's a really interesting cloud ERP for manufacturing. It's kind of a similar, similar situation. It's a highly complex piece of software, a lot of objects, thus the full stack. You know, if even if I were to make the switch from AFSight to that, it's a huge, gonna be huge learning curve, basically start over from from from zero on the on the how the objects and everything else flow.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

And in terms of you mentioned hiring, when you when you are hiring, um do you with AFSI in mind, do you tend to find more success when hiring individuals that have aviation experience first than maybe just broader CRM ERP experience, not Salesforce, or vice versa. So Salesforce first, industry, they'll pick it up. What's more what I know it depends on individuals, it might not be a one-size-fits-all, but what generally do you prefer or have you found successful in this industry?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

I've I think it's like a mix of both. Like I think the right technically inclined candidate with a strong Salesforce background, like somebody from a consulting background, a solution architect, just picks it up pretty quickly and is gonna get on the ball rolling with it, versus if I'm picking up a relatively junior role where tech experience isn't a guarantee and maybe they don't have uh, you know, you can't look for a consulting background or something like of that nature for them to have those dot patterns and design methodologies, uh then yeah, industry experience is the way to go, right? So you, you know, the gap of teaching the industry to somebody, if somebody has the innate skill to pick it up and maybe's worked in consulting, so you've jumped across multiple projects, you have to understand a business quickly, you have to be able to digest what people are saying. Um, obviously that's gonna, you know, be a huge asset. But if you're going with somebody that has no necessary background in either, I think industry experience is gonna be the differentiating factor every time because it is a very unique experience uh in the industry. It's not it's not something that uh translates well, I think, from others.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Yeah, so um I have a bit of an ERP background. It was actually an ERP systems before I moved to CRM systems, um, did a lot of warehousing inventory type systems. One of the things that always I don't say bothered me, but made me think that Salesforce wasn't the right tool for inventory, is the need for triggers to keep quantities, or which I would think you would need triggers to keep quantities uh in balance, and that if something fails, your inventory would be wrong. Like if you had a trigger fail because you can't rely on like referential integrity type stuff. Is that is that something that you run into that you need to really make sure that if you get like a trigger or flow error, you're worried about losing a part in a warehouse?

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Yeah, we haven't had a situation like that come up. You know, thankfully, I think two things. One is they've done a really good job with the abstraction layer of defining the relationship between the order line item and the inventory. So that kind of like safety guard of having to go through these screens that create the these records in sequence before the inventory is even touched and validated prevents kind of those discrepancies. And so if you have like a strong allocation process, I think most of the time that's resolved, and that's one of the benefits of getting the package because it comes with that allocation process out of the out of the box. Yeah, but that's always like a a concern. I in maybe um other systems, sort of, I I haven't had it occur to me uh ever. So that's been great, uh, in at least on AppSight, right? And for us, when we're building a flow or automation that is touching anything with inventory quant uh inventory, or really actually when we do any type of DML operation, we've instituted a lot of uh logging. So we have nebula logger handle uh any type of failure, um, and we automatically publish a log with where it broke, kind of what happened, everything up in the transaction up to that point. Um, and then we automatically create a case and route it to our technical team to review. So if there were any kind of automations, which would be few and far in between, because we kind of have processes through the URP for most of the inventory touching, um, we would be notified immediately by with a case and understand exactly what happened, you know, why it errored, all that, all the nature of that. Yeah. So observability is definitely important because of the URP nature of the program. And that's why we kind of brought in Nebula logger. Obviously, we can't have observability on the managed package because that's their uh proprietary code and Salesforce doesn't allow you to view it, but anything we do, we uh we have that.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

So um so it's really interesting. It probably sounds like you're relying on logging plus heavy, heavy testing of the managed package. Um, so it looks like your code is really solid. What what about like inventory movements? So you already it it does warehousing, meaning like locations, storage locations?

SPEAKER_01 30:36

So yep, we can do digital and physical locations, we can do warehouse transfers, all that through the existing methods provided by AppSight. So really the only scenarios where we're doing inventory alterations currently are for is for scrapping. So when we scrap stuff out of our inventory, and that's kind of a very regulated and controlled process anyway. So when we built that out for ourselves, um, you know, we had the full we had like the oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

So you do scrapping, which means you do assembly too. You'll take like three parts and turn it into one or package.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, we don't uh we won't do assembly of like components into a new component, but we will do like multiple line items into a package and ship it, or multiple orders to aggregate it into a package and ship it.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Really, really cool. All done in Salesforce. Yeah. Um so yeah, uh what about integrations? I know you guys are like using MuleSoft. It sounds like AvSight does almost everything with that. What are you integrating with?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Uh so we integrate with Zencraft, so they handle the actual shipping of the carriers, and that's been an ongoing process where we've had to like refine the connections between the the orders uh and like the releases in AvSight versus the shipping, firing to the carrier and handling all that automated. So that's a big integration for us. Fantastic package from Zencraft, great team over there, and they've helped us a lot, you know, kind of continue to refine that. So that's a sweet one. And that that does a lot of uh great work for us. Uh really, really critical piece of infrastructure there. It's it's been it's been a long journey trying to kind of get it fully hammered out, but it's been great. Um, we use sharing picks, which has been a great partner for us as well, to provide the ability to take online and online and offline pictures in the warehouse and have all that storage off-platform because that's one of the biggest considerations of URP. You're ingesting huge amounts of files, but you know, Salesforce storage is expensive. A lot of those pictures aren't really relevant to core processes because it's like shipping, intake, and shipping outbound. So, you know, bringing that package in was a great way to offload those and provide us with advanced photo editing capabilities and photo capture. See that package a lot in field service, so that was a natural you know fit. Uh, you know, Slack, we're full in on the Slack CRM side, so using Salesforce records, uh, those app site records as channels and driving things and that nature.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

Um using MuleSoft for all of this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Uh yeah, most of this, most of the stuff is like just wired straight onto is straight onto um Salesforce. We use MuleSoft specifically for our Slack integration uh because we found that like the out-of-the-box experience from the uh Salesforce to Slack wasn't what we wanted because there were certain things we wanted to enforce with like Slack referrals and things of that nature. So we we went ahead and built out kind of that MuleSoft infrastructure that listens for events and then goes ahead and picks those up and shoots over the relevant Slack messages to the to Slack. One of the biggest things for us, for example, is as soon as an order is released, we have a channel, they get a cute notification with all the information about a priority and a button that they can click and it'll launch them into the picking screen in Salesforce where they can start their picking process in the warehouse, go ahead, grab whatever they need. So having that tight like um coupling with all the systems, Mealsoft lets us do it through the the listeners and the event firing. But oftentimes a lot of stuff we can just do it straight off on Salesforce because everything's on Salesforce. So like chairing picks and the other one were just packages that we hooked in.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

So so I'm sorry. So for all of the third-party tools, you're just using like a package that the that the vendor provided, except for the product old by Salesforce. That one you had to buy MuleSoft to integrate with.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Yeah, the the way we wanted, pretty much, yeah. The way the the way that we wanted, yeah. The other thing that we're using MuleSoft for heavily is we've been building out these IDT flows, so classification of like inbound documents, because aviation is like you know, document heavy. So we got that, and we're doing things like looking at uh doing payables, automatically, you know, taking invoices and paying them, and things of like classifying certificates of that nature. But yeah, pretty ironic that we did all this stuff by just downloading things from you know app exchange, and then we had to get MuleSoft for that part, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

Yeah, MuleSoft um they came out with a product, I forgot what it was called, um, where it can like parse PDFs and get the text out of it.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Yeah, that's exactly what we use. The intelligent document process yes, intelligent document processing, and it's a really cool feature. And we've been toying around with it for a couple months and with a couple different workflows. It's really cool. It's it's it's actually like super cool. Like, I think the curve for like using it is not that bad, actually, from like an extraction point of view. It's really wiring it into the whole workflow that's proven to be kind of like difficult, uh, like you know, going the full yard of like, hey, who's gonna send the email to this and where is the listener gonna go and stuff? But from the point of view of like, hey, um I'm a Salesforce admin, uh not an architect, just a Salesforce admin, no, maybe no uh you know Apex experience, nothing like that, just purely declarative. And I go into MuleSoft and I look at the IDP solution, I could actually extract meaningful insights from a document through natural language, prompting, adjusting the the different things that it's querying for. So I think that's actually like really cool. Like uh, you know, uh that's something that before maybe specialized tools you you need to bring in. Uh or even if you're using things like you know, my the Azure AI tooling, it's a lot more uh user involvement versus this is like literally geared towards like, hey, let me just describe um the different things that I'm looking for, these kind of variables you create, and it goes out and fetches it dynamically.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

So um the flow that I've always imagined IDP for um is I get an email, PO, MuleSoft picks up the email, says, ah, this is a purchase order, takes the purchase order, does some kind of image recognition on it, strips out the order, enters it into whatever ERP system, your case sales force. That's what you guys are doing.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Uh well, thankfully, actually, our vendor app site's well ahead of the curve on that. So they've deployed LLM capabilities, and we were one of the first adopters of their email the quote feature, and we've been working with that heavily. And basically any document that's sent in kind of goes into that LLM framework. It handles the creation of the record automatically in the system and it links it back to the originating document or email so that you kind of have that human in the loop of like here's the original request and then here's the item inside of it. So um we know we chat we go we've gone with vendor capabilities for like those options because the existing vendor like uh you know has chosen to pursue them. And I think we'll see a lot of that with these third-party vendors that need to make a differentiating factor for themselves. It's like, you know, they will bring the AI into the URP where all the information is contextual and they already know where it is and they can make the most effective use of it. Versus if you were to take a tool like Mealsoft, you still have to kind of put the semantic layer of saying, here's the information now, where is it going into the system and having to own the logic of the mapping and you know how when and how to create you know those records, etc.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

With um regards to to AvSite and um you know how you're using AvSite uh currently and intention to use it in the future? Um you mentioned some of the things that you're doing right now in terms of um automation and you know leveraging other platforms like MureSoft with IDP uh for productivity enhancement and things like that. Where in general do you feel like are the best use cases in your world for AI and automation, whether you've you've done them currently or not? But like what are you thinking about moving forwards?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yeah, so it's interesting because I found the largest gains in AI productivity to be like in the actual revenue operations process. So and everything from solutioning to actual build-outs. I think we're really in an interesting time where people were cello operators, they could essentially replace their entire delivery arms with you know well-trained agents in a strong framework, which is uh really cool. So we've gone full AI first on our development processes, and we're usually heavily from the initial user drafting of the story to working through the solution design to then the actual you know kind of build out. I think uh one of the biggest things is people kind of think AI is like, hey, you just turn it on and it's gonna work. But you know, one of the most important things for it is context and being proactive and intentional with how you're structuring the context for the AI. So building out the blueprints and tools, the expectations. You know, for example, for us, we implemented a great workflow with Claude and the Claude uh MCP with Slack, where we can kind of take an issue in Slack, give our thoughts on how we want to resolve this, and ping uh this uh you know, Claude who will come into the channel, read the message that are maybe originally sparked it if it's a thread or conversation, take the context plus all the guidance that we've given it about hey, how we want the solution to work, because maybe we've been having an engineering discussion going back and forth. Is this going to be a flow? Is this gonna be an LWC? Whatever, we hash it out, we make our choices, then we're painting Claude and bringing it in there, and we can make sure that it creates a very well-detailed Jira story, automatically assigned to the resource, has all the information needed about the issue, can infer based off all the expected standards and the context that we've set it, because it has access to our GitHub and it has access to the rules that we've set up, um, understand like exactly what needs to happen, chunk it out into actionable tasks, and basically save that whole time where we would have had to have a meeting, or we would have maybe had to bring in somebody to spend some time typing up these Jero stories to make sure that the work is going to occur. So that's step one is getting solutions kind of well fleshed out, well laid out, well documented, have it all there. Step two is you know, bringing in AI assistance in the actual build-out. So using tooling like cursor or clot code that we've been using heavily. And since we have these well-formatted design documents and it's plugged into our repos and we have the rules, it can produce pretty high-quality code versus kind of just saying, hey, I have this feature, I need you to build it. You don't have this ontology of the company, you have no context of what the end user is, you have no context about the internal technical standards, you're just writing code based off very generic best practices, right? So I think kind of creating that ecosystem has really changed how we look at delivery for our end users. Things that would have taken a long time before can be significantly faster. Maybe some apprehension about building out a solution for the user to have a tactile kind of experience, versus you know, be like, oh, you know, are you sure this is really what you want? A lot of things that might sit in discovery longer because we're delaying a build, because we want to have all the requirements fleshed out, that kind of shifts. You can prototype quicker, you can spin up um you know changes faster, you can have people click through things and understand this is what it would look like versus maybe just having to wireframe everything. And I think it reduces a lot of the need for the end user's imagination.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

So Salesforce doesn't have aviation cloud, uh not not yet, at least. Um so we know a little bit, we talked a bit about AvSight and the importance there. Um where where does Salesforce stop and have site start for you guys? How you know what what would you say? Like it is there a clear black and white? I know they're all integrated into one system, but like where do you think it starts and stops?

SPEAKER_01 43:08

So I think it was interesting because I think when I started in my role here, I talk a lot about Salesforce, and people are like, what are you talking about? Right? Like we don't use Salesforce. And I'm like, well, we actually do, we use it every day, right? And that's why the login screen is on Salesforce. So uh, you know, if that doesn't tell you like how uh not clued in sometimes the people that are actually using the applications are going on to the background of everything. Um, you know, I don't know what else to say. But um I would say there is no clear line line or distinction, right? Like the platform basically holistically does everything we need. And it's been a bit of a mindset shift for people to begin talking about it as Salesforce that we've expanded our footprint. So we brought in cases for customer support and we bought service cloud licenses and things of those nature, and they're seeing other parts of The platform. So I think you know, over time they've uh wrapped their head around a larger concept. But if you were looking at it purely from, hey, we got a new system and you were the end user, I think a lot of times it doesn't click for them that they're part of this larger ecosystem. And a lot of the materials and resources that you see from people or consulting partners or things of that nature that work in the Salesforce uh ecosystem can apply to you. Like, you know, those certifications are valuable to you. Your knowledge of the platform carries over versus like, you know, you're just thinking about it from a, hey, this is Opsite.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

I like it. So maybe unknowingly to customers of Opsite, uh, perhaps you this uh observation you made is maybe not unique uh to to to uh to yourself.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

So so you talked a little bit about the kind of the community aspect. Like it, you know, we we have found like the South Source of HANA that is very community driven, but especially in aviation, it's a very, very small world. And um you you talked about kind of some of the user groups that exist in this space. Um what what I guess what is your favorite one? And and uh you know, is that a good spot for like comparing with other leaders in decisions to yourself, or is it more are they more like technical, like the um like the TDX type equivalents that we have in the Salesforce space?

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah, so it's it's actually a great mix. So uh the company apps that actually sponsors an annual user group and their employees go and they they provide a lot of training and different like showcasing of features and talk about the roadmap, and it's always great to connect with all the other users. It's always a great event and it's held out, so you get to see other people mean a chat shop, talk with people that are doing these same things that you're doing, because when you talk to other Salesforce professionals, some of the issues you face can be like really unique, and it's like, oh yeah, I sometimes find myself able to chat more with people about what they're doing on Salesforce than they can chat about with what I'm doing. So it's always great to have some common ground. I think the you know, it's quite mixed. Like there's a lot of technical people, a lot of people that I've worked with that I'm I you know are super sharp and are also like working through uh some of those changes, uh kind of being on the forefront of these agentic and AI wave and trying to bring it all in. Uh, other people are kind of more business leaders that have, because of these transformations, taken on more of the technical role. So their background comes from the business, but a lot of their value comes from being able to galvanize their teams into understanding the technology, getting them to shift from their legacy mindsets because they have a lot of that credibility from having been in the business. So I think it's a wide bag. I think the favorite group for me definitely is the Discord user group. So after the first AFSI uh summit, a couple of the prominent community members, I think it was Nicole and Chris Stotts, uh, set up the Discord community, uh, joined it, and it's been really great because people just kind of join and pop in. And sometimes it's just, hey, I have a question, or you know, what's in your tech stack? And hey, does anybody have any insights on this? Or maybe something, you know, some very specific problem goes down. You at least have other people using the service where you can chat and talk about it, about it. And obviously, appsite support, they have it. That's a great tool. They actually provide support because in Europe, right? Like you need some level of support. This is business critical infrastructure, right? So it's not like a it's not a replacement for support, but it is definitely a great supplement whenever you have an idea or to get an grasp of what other people are doing.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

In your opinion, um, of course, what what does Salesforce do well in the aviation space and where is there maybe uh room for improvement?

SPEAKER_01 47:41

Um I think it's great that they offer GovCloud. So like a lot of AvSite users are also GovCloud users. So they've got a GovCloud instance from Salesforce and then implement AvSite on it. And I think it's great what they've done in the federal space and you know being able to provide these capabilities to the aerospace and defense uh base as the um you know those teams are pressing in uh today's times is always fantastic. Um I think uh I think they're doing a lot of like interesting work with some of the larger airlines and uh aviation players, more centered around kind of that B2C experience, things like implementing agents for casework, like uh you know, customer resolution. I personally definitely have called into an airliner recently and spoken to an AI voice. So I'm sure I'm sure Salesforce is definitely agent force is involved to some get you know some extent there. So um I don't think their focus really has been on the aftermarket so much. There's a lot of diverse business models in it. There's like, you know, everything from like Les Sources to the mechanics to the teardowns, the shops, things of that nature. So it's kind of hard to address their customer base. I think, you know, long term they should continue doing what they're doing. And they've obviously partnered with Afside, and they're doing a great job. So it doesn't seem like they necessarily need to replicate any of the product capabilities. Seems to be like a fairly bespoke and kind of a different focus from the CRM side of Salesforce where it's very heavy on the customer relationship management.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Uh yeah, it's funny. I I uh I actually did work on a project for a very large airline. Uh I'm not gonna mention a name. Um But they are the I never thought of it as an aviation as an aviation project because there's so much customer service, lost luggage type exactly. Yeah, straight ticketing type stuff, right? Um I I did have uh a question about I find it interesting that you go to the to the app side Discord for support. Is it it's it's like has Salesforce gotten so big that the community support isn't the same and that a smaller community is more helpful? Well, a lot of it I think afside specific, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

I think a lot of it is uh it's like afside specific. Like I think the last time I went to Salesforce for an issue was like uh you know, some sometime like halfway through last year where we were working with a very specific aura, it was like a LWC with an Aura component LWC like embedded in an Aura wrapper or something like that, and we were getting this crazy error and we couldn't pull debug logs, and we had to actually sit with Salesforce support and pull it from their server-side logs to give us guidance. But we haven't really had many many problems with like the Salesforce support. I know it's been a hot topic like trying to navigate the new Agent Force site, and honestly, it's been pretty atrocious for me, like when I go to look for something. So hopefully, you know, that improves. Uh I I don't I had no problem with the old site. So, you know, I think that's you know, to each their own. Uh, I think there's great uses of AI. Maybe navigating the knowledge base was was a big jump there for Salesforce. Um, you know, AppSite offers like premier support. So when we do have an issue and it's an app site feature, we reach out to them, they always get back to us with anything f SLA and we kind of work through the those problems. So it's kind of like a meet point for us. And also as a partner, they could escalate to Salesforce support through their unique channels through the partner community. So, like worst case, that that would also be like an avenue for us to kind of pursue if Salesforce was wasn't really being helpful. I think for us, it's mostly like, hey, we use this product, and not a lot of well, actually a lot of people use this product, but not not a lot of people are Salesforce admins that can provide some level of you know insight on what's going on with the product, etc.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Really cool. So um, I mean that that is interesting though that you don't like like this, like it used to be the Salesforce community was like really, really the best the best place to get any kind of help. Um definitely things are definitely changing from there. I'm not exactly sure. I'm not exactly sure why. I do know some of the more senior people have uh let's say had their fail of Salesforce and uh are looking to move out of the ecosystem, particularly with the last round of layoffs. Um, but that's a whole other that's a whole other topic. Um yeah, let's pivot back to some of the AI stuff that you were doing that seemed very interesting. Um I know you're I know you're integrating with Slack. Um from the development side, you're are you using like AI like connected to like Jira or to communicate with yeah, so tell us about that. How are you using it?

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Yeah, so uh we talked a little bit about the the Jira like solution use case earlier. So we used like Jira MCP with the cloud, and we have those two tied together with GitHub, and that allows it to you know, through the Slack context of whatever the solution training thread is, really put together a comprehensive user story. Uh when we're actually like programming our solutions, like our primary ID of choice is cursor, but sometimes we may run things in parallel, you know, have a cursor running in one window and be also working on like the same branch with cloud code. Um you know, the new cursor feature with like the cloud agents has been really cool where we're able to kind of feed it at least larger design documents and it automatically breaks out the work into smaller, you know, agent frameworks. Um yeah, I mean I think uh I think AI is like fantastic. I think it has a huge place in the current development processes um as people are like designing uh you know how they're gonna structure their development teams. I think that's a big consideration is augmenting current capabilities by bringing in these you know AI assisted coding and things of that nature.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Um so any any issues with there? Any any any funny stories, let's say even better?

SPEAKER_01 53:45

I I we you know, when we were working to gear up like the actual like gear creation of the story, there was a lot of like fine-tuning the prompts and like getting the tools to get it to, you know, sometimes it was just like way too much. Like it'd be giving you like 50 acceptance criteria for like a pretty straightforward like testing scenario. I think the funniest thing is we've given it uh, you know, kind of a name and we call it internally Claudio. So instead of Claude, it's Claudio, and we got you know, it's like we kind of treat it like our buddy. It's like, hey, what does Claudio think about this? Or you know, maybe we hand this one off to Claudio and he can one-shot it, right? So it almost feels like it's you know sitting as a fourth member of the team, which is uh, I think a little scary, but also uh really great uh from uh from like uh from my point of view because it's increased velocity without necessarily sacrificing you know quality of life for the resources.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Yeah, it it's funny with uh sorry, real quick. It's funny you're talking to junior developers sometimes that they'll use like like uh like the uh the we pronoun. Um and anyway, who we like who are you working with? And and they'll be talking about the agent. Yeah, and you're like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yeah. It's like yeah, like, oh, we were working on it yesterday. Like, who are we working on? Claudio.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

I was gonna I was gonna ask, uh, does Claudio go through the uh performance reviews, the year end? You know, did he did he did Claudio meet his expectations this year and get his bonus?

SPEAKER_01 55:13

And you know, he's doing great. He he he he never gets tired, he he always puts his best effort in. And no, I think I think it's really interesting. I think one of the things, biggest things is as you tie these things tighter into your processes, the the reliance on them is you know outstanding. Oftentimes you think about it things like uh an ontology, right? Like, what is INAV and what does that mean for an AI agent? And like how does it interact with it? Because you know, for us, INAV is a corporate and business entity, but for these agents, it's a collection of data sets, it's different sources, it's context that's being ingested into it, right? So the more you use these and develop that ontology layer, the harder it is to move away from these uh platforms or switch vendors. So kind of this innate lock-in as you continue to accelerate your own delivery. Conversely, if we were today to move to a different model provider and have to like move a lot of our work, uh, it's it's um it's difficult. Like we would definitely sacrifice some of the stability and things that we've built out today and have to re-architect that. And it only gets worse the longer you spend on it, right? The more time that you spend on it. And this is such an emerging field that I think a lot of people aren't necessarily you know bearing that in mind, which is like vendor lock-in is happening innately through the building of these workflows. So yeah, just you know, food for thought as you're working through some of these things.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

Any concerns about um AI in aviation? Just it it doesn't have to be centered to INAP, just in general. Like um, you know, obviously you've been in this space pretty much all your career at this point. So you you you know, are you you know, and there's so many different components to aviation, right? Um, you know, you've mentioned the PTC, obviously the airlines, that's obvious, but you've got everything, right? You've got defense, you've got uh cargo, you've got supply chain. Any any concerns?

SPEAKER_01 57:11

I think that we're seeing applications of AI in really interesting and novel ways that aren't necessarily you know, territory that's ever been explored before. Like I think a lot of the systems that are being deployed in the federal government today, such as the systems by Palantur, represent like you know, cutting-edge technological nation-state advantages that other um state actors don't have, or you know, those things are very interesting, like philosophical shifts about how we think about um, you know, our nation's defense and also like our global posture. I also think as you know, in this pursuit of efficiency, we see things like you know, air traffic control the other day. Uh you know, resources are strained. Are we gonna begin to bring in AI into that side of the industry of like you know, air traffic control or pilots? And you've seen kind of the regression of the URS from having a three-man air crew with a first officer and navigator, and as technology has advanced, you've seen the removal of the navigator to now a two-person crew. You know, some people are saying even we're gonna go down to one-person crew. So, what does that mean with the rise of AI long term? And I think there's a lot of things where you can bring in AI and there's a lot of credible value. And um, you know, I think there's like a lot of different applications uh that are fantastic, but I don't think we're at the point where like uh you know, some of those uh applications should be front and center of policy discussions. Like, I hope we're not bringing AI into air traffic control or flying planes uh, you know, anytime, you know, in the civilian world because that would have like, you know, sometimes it gets my coffee order wrong. Like, you know, it'd be real bad if it uh mixed up something with uh one of those kind of sensitive industries. So I think it's really important that as things change every day and progress is being made, that people are constantly thinking about, you know, should we even apply AI here, right? Like, can we apply AI to make certain processes more efficient, but maybe not fully um you know, autonomize it? I think human in the loop is really critical at the stage where trust and but verify, you know, is is I think the core tenement of AI right now. So yeah, I think that's yeah, good for thought.

SPEAKER_03 59:29

You know, autopilot has existed since like the 70s, I think. For the airport.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. And and autocast and like and like the you know, automatic like stabilization, like for example, like if you see the latest fighter aircraft, if the pilot goes unconscious, you're hitting 2,000 feet, bam, you know, you're just uh aircraft levels out, flies, and definitely some interesting and novel use cases there. But I think just kind of doing away with the human in the loop completely, like at any point autopilot's going on, guy can take it on, can uh can you know take over. I wouldn't feel great if the autopilot you know resolution loop is uh an agent is gonna review what the autopilot's you know saying. That would not be great.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Think of it like the uh the Waymo type stuff, right? It's the same concept. Um, you know, it's testing people's comfortability with AI um in what could be life and death scenarios, right? Um to be honest, as a as a as a traveller, all I wanted my flight to arrive on time and take off on time. That's what I want. I don't care about anything else. Um so um baby steps, let's get that right first, and you know, we go from there is my opinion. But um last uh question uh for you, Hector. Um your advice and thoughts on individuals that might be interested in getting into the aviation space, particularly from a Salesforce outside, you know, ERP, CRM perspective, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Yeah, I think the I think the most important thing is shifting your thinking about how to break into the ecosystem. So a lot of the previous advice has been like, you know, get skilled up in in Salesforce, get your certifications, get a solid technical understanding of like, you know, flow and the different aspects of the program. I think like a lot, you know, if you're trying to break in, industry experience is going to be a lot more relevant because the technical layer has been pretty much commoditized. We've seen a lot of that over the years with the shift to like you know offshore models and things of that nature, and then the kind of shift to nearshore delivery. But I think we've kind of pretty much run the full gamut where now it's like AI assisted delivery and the combination of those three things. So, you know, it's very tough to compete with resources in that space. So your best bet is you know trying to get real relevant uh processes, um, process experience. So when your company's doing any type of digital transformation, get involved, right? Like a lot of people don't like change, and if you can be a change engine and somebody that is involved in these processes, um, you know, maybe their role can grow and expand from there as you get you know additional exposure uh to it. But I think it's a lot more easy for somebody now to have you know an established career and make the transition into uh revenue operations or ERP tech versus like, hey, I'm just gonna go out there and become an ERP developer because I learned how to code from a coding bootcamp. Right, like that's not really, I think, um in today's uh market gonna get you where you need to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:36

Amazing. Perfect. Well, Hector, thank you. Uh absolute pleasure. And um, you know, it's really good to get a whistle stop tour into um Salesforce and Aviation and you know, have site and you know, kind of what I I have do, and um, you know, and it's it's a starting point for individuals that you know, I think it's such a fascinating industry. Um and you know, unless you work for an airline, you might not get that exposure, but there is more opportunity than just working for an airline. I think that's the point. Um and you gave two examples.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Yeah. And I think to Maz's point, even if you worked at the airline and you worked on their Salesforce side, it would pretty much not even be an aviation thing. It would be like customer loyalty and it'd be a lot of customer support and call center style, uh, because it's kind of a B2C business. So it's interesting. Uh, you know, depending on what side of the aviation industry you are, your exposure to Salesforce will be radically, you know, different. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Perfect. Well, thanks again, Hector. Appreciate it.