SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome! You are listening to the CRM Success Show, where you will hear from CRM executives who have overseen some of the most interesting and complex CRM implementations. Your hosts, David Masri and Kira Whitey, will be bringing you real stories, real insight. Follow along on social media for updates on new episode releases, exclusive content, and much more. Enjoy the show and thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Welcome to the CRM Success Show, where we deep dive into CRM success and failure, delivering real stories with real impact. I'm Dave Masri. And I'm Kira Whitzi. And today we're talking with Ethan Lippman, the VP of RevOps at uh Alchemy Technology. So welcome, Ethan.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

How's it going, Kira? How's it going, Mass? How are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Doing great.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Absolute pleasure. Good to have you here. Thanks for uh thanks for putting the time aside to join us. Um, nice, easy question to get us going. Would you mind giving our listeners today a bit of background to you, um, your background and and a little bit about Alchemy for those that have not come across the business before, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

For sure. So I'll start with Alchemy. Um, there's about 9,500 financial institutions, banks or credit unions in the United States. All except for the mega banks are using a company like Alchemy to handle their digital banking. So when you go onto your cell phone or your computer and you go to your bank and you log into your bank and you move money around or you send a payment or you look at your credit score, et cetera, that's either by us or someone that we compete with. Or if you're a mega bank, it's probably homegrown and you build your own solution. So, in a nutshell, that's what Alchemy does. As for me and what I do at Alchemy, uh, I helped to leave our RevOps team. That includes sales enablement, sales operations, marketing operations. Uh, and we have a Salesforce administrator as well. And how I got into RevOps was a bit of an intentional curvy road. So I started as a solution engineer doing demos. I did some customer support, made my way into account management, but ultimately ended that ended up at product at that company, that company's bridgeline digital. And I got into product because I was always like, well, if they're the ones building the things I got to be selling, I want to be the one in charge of building it so that my sellers could go sell the thing that I know people need. That just seems like a logical jump to me. I also really love product. So I did product there for a while, built some cool things, and then I went to Hearst Digital Media, which is Cosmo, Men's Health, Women's Health, Esquire, PotMac, all those brands, and led a couple product teams in games and interactive content. It was a lot of fun. We did like the polls on Cosmopolitan and Esquire and Elle's websites, um, did some interactive games, made the login for it, built some really cool Slack bots that we might talk about later. So it was a really fun opportunity, really fun position. But then after doing product for so long, just kind of got a little bored of that daily product grind repetition, wanted something different, switched to competitive intelligence at a company called Workfront, also then built my own competitive intelligence uh company and product, then went over to a company called On24, but ultimately ended up back at Alchemy with a couple folks, our CEO and CRO from Workfront went over to Alchemy, and I joined as sales enablement slash competitive intelligence with the thought of hey, you know, one thing I really love about competitive intelligence is enabling the field to compete against your competition, but enablement has a much wider breadth. So I'd like to take that on. So after doing that for about a year and moving the team around and finding the right people into the team, we really were like, okay, this is this is gonna be much more of a rev RevOps team. And we brought revenue operations and I brought you know the process of revenue operations into the company. So that's a little bit about alchemy, my background and how I got to Oriente.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Awesome. Um thanks for that. And um again, for anyone that's local, um listening to the podcast in the Dallas, the FW region, uh, probably seen the headquarters uh over in Granite Park, right? Uh big nice office there with big Alchemy sign. Yeah, very nice area. And um with regards to Alchemy uh as a business, um, subscription-based business, correct? From from a revenue standpoint, customers sign up for a monthly ongoing. That's that's how the business make money.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Correct. Uh in that sense, it is a typical SaaS company. Um, we call ourselves, instead of being a fin tech, we call ourselves a tech fin because we really put the technology first. We find a lot of fin techs focus on you know not being a software company, but at the heart of what we do, we're ones and zeros, right? We're a software company. So we've kind of rebranded to calling ourselves a tech fin in that sense. But yeah, as far as a model goes for a way everyone listening understands, typical SaaS model.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Uh real cool. So uh I'm assuming all of that is outside of the CRM using CRM mostly for what sales, and then and then all of the portal stuff. You're not like integrating the portal with CRM. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Um, yeah. So some of our products integrate with some of our customers, Salesforce instance. For example, we have a product that is uh kind of marketing automation and intelligently placed advertisements in your digital banking app that could integrate as a customer with like your Salesforce instance. But as far as how we're using it in-house, we're using Salesforce as a way for our new logo sellers and our account managers to track conversations, to find prospects, track all the typical Salesforce activities. Uh, we're also using starting to get a little more involved in Service Cloud. Um that is not so much my side of the house, but we are starting to see if you know we can pull away from Jira a little bit more and get a little more into Service Cloud.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah, so I know today we wanted to talk a lot about RevOps. Um it's obviously a topic very you know, very of interest to our listeners. Um, I didn't realize you did work with competitive intelligence. Um, so that's something that probably most of our listeners haven't really heard of. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what that is? Um how that relates to CRM.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

So I'll say how I got into it.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

When I was at what is it first?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Oh, what is it? Okay. Uh look, we all have competitors. Our companies compete against competitors, and you want to go out and beat them. So, how do you do that? Well, you do recon on your competition. You learn their strengths, their weaknesses, the opportunities, the threats, how you could defeat them. You know, at a real entry level, you're probably building battle cards a little above that. You're probably having win-loss interviews to get a little more information, right? The ideal is that you want to do everything completely above board, completely ethically, but get as much information on the competition as possible to position your team, your sellers in the way to beat them. And you also really want to take it a step beyond that, right? Surface level, help your competitors, but or sorry, help your uh sales reps. But how are you also helping your product team? How are you helping your product team make sure that they're building product that is competitively differentiated? How are you helping your marketing team by letting your marketing team know the tactics your competitors are employing on social media or on LinkedIn or on their website or an SEO, etc.? So that's competitive intel.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

So it's typical swap stuff, right? Uh well, it's funny you say that.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah. Well, it's funny you say that because that's a little why I got into competitive intelligence, and I'll I'll give the backstory on it. So at Hearst, we built something called Hans. It stands for Hearst Answers. It's still one of the top um case studies on Slack's website. And basically, this was before the days of ChatGPT. It plugged into 12 different uh endpoints or so, and using NLP and natural language processing, you could go in and say, Hey, Hans, how many genes sold on Cosmo today? And you would get an answer. And you could use it competitively. So an editor might say, Hey, what's trending in Vogue, right? A competitor editor to Hearst. And then it would tell them what's trending on Vogue. So that got me thinking about the competitive uses for a Slackbot and also the front door to data. We'll talk a lot about reports and dashboards later, I'm sure. But my take on it, and you know, spoiler alert is dashboards are where data goes to die because you don't have a good front door into data. And in my opinion, the best front door into content is Slack, if you're a Slack organization, because Slack is where everyone hangs out. So take that, put it to the side. I was getting tired of being in product for so long. I was thinking what I want to do next. And Maz, like what you just said, you said, oh, the typical stuff. So as I was thinking what I want to do, I was like, man, what function is ripe for innovation? Right? I was just building games and interactive content, highly fun, innovative product. So I'm like, what is a job function that is ripe for innovation? And I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm like, I can't imagine competitive intelligence. How like I picture the people who are like wannabe CIA pretending to get demos from competitors, doing things, you know, like not super innovative, um, creating battle cards and thinking their job is done, or using a competitive intelligence software and thinking their job is done. And I'm like, you know what? That that job function, that's a job function that is ripe for innovation. So found a home and workfront. And one of the first things I did is I built a Slack bot there. I think we called it Pete, which was short for compete. And a seller could go in, type the name of a competitor, and then write in Slack, get you know, the quick hits, the um the pitch, the uh landmine questions, the battle card, etc. So all your information right there. So completely homegrown product built it for him.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Oh, really, really cool. Um yeah, it's actually one of the the typical SWOT fields, the four fields, right? Strengths, weaknesses, um, opportunities, threats. Yeah, like I feel like those should be on every opportunity out of the box in Salesforce. It's one of the things that it was questioned like, why don't they just add those damn four fields? Um it seems it seems right um or an obvious uh Can I give you a spin on that answer? Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Most of us are competing against the same competitors time and time again. So if I'm a seller, I'm like, why am I putting in this competitor strength that hasn't changed month over month or week over week? Uh I'd almost rather it where there's an automation, right? Rifonoff your answer, where if competitor A is selected and click save, then fill in SWAT with predetermined, talking that out loud, I guess how much value does that really bring? But um, what we do is we do an opportunity, uh, we call it an opportunity strategy document, lives in Salesforce. And on that, we're doing the SWOT of the opportunity and all the competitors involved, really more based on the opportunity level, um instead of at the competitor level.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yeah, so I would 100% agree with that, right? So the your strengths and weaknesses would change based on the opportunity clients needs. Right. Right, definitely. Um, and that's why there's multiple products on the market, right? Because you fit different niches. Even out of the box, Salesforce doesn't have a who is it my competitors. Right? No, but uh okay, so it should, it should um have that. Um the let's hop back to RevOps. Um why don't you tell us what RevOps means to you, Word Alchemy?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Yeah. Um, and actually first I'm gonna expand on what you're you said earlier about the competitors in Salesforce. One thing we're working on doing now is when a competitor is selected, sending up an automation in notifications and Slack or email to send the seller the most up-to-date competitive info we have on that competitor based on who they selected in the opportunity. So even though it's not like it changes a lot, like I just said, it's still really nice to have what are the three most up-to-date win-loss interviews against this competitor? What's the one most up-to-date, you know, piece of intel we got from the field about this competitor, right? So that's a new thing we're working on where based on the competitor, we're gonna have that automation fire and trigger. Uh, ideally, probably Slack. Um, but what does RevOps mean to me? So I look at RevOps as a the function that helps sales be more proficient in what they do. To me, proficient includes a couple things. Proficient is productive, proficient is also successful, right? Um, so it's not just, hey, I'm helping them be more productive, but look, there's a go-to-market engine. How can we help them go to market engine be more proficient to ultimately establish their goals? Goals are hey, I want everyone to make club. And ultimately, if that happens, we're crushing our company number.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

So, with regards to like your journey, uh, we touched on this a little bit with your intro. You transitioned from that product management background into RevOps uh during your time, primarily at Alchemy, right? You might have been touching on some ideas of RevOps and RevOps support, but it was really at Alchemy, your current role, where where you've you know had that set role and responsibility. What did that shift uh look like for you and what motivated you to make that move? Uh you touched on it a little bit around you know building the products and then someone else selling it, kind of kind of kind of thing. But uh tell tell us a little bit more about that journey.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Yeah. Um when I was younger, my dad told me, don't do the job you have, do the job you want to have. And I always really liked that piece of advice. So at Alchemy, it was well, the job I have is competitive intel, and the job I have is sales enablement. But I also want to do more with product. What is a product role in the go-to-market world? It's RevOps. Salesforce is our product. Salesforce is the product we have to take pride in if that is our CRM. That means the user experience, the fields. Is it customized for account management versus new logo? Right? How is we making how are we making our product something that sellers want to go in and use versus cringe at the thought of logging into? So that is why RevOps was the calling for me as I started to move more into go to market at a SaaS company versus being in product. This is a, you know, this is the ultimate product and go to market and it touches everything, which is super fun too, right? It touches PADA, it touches terminus, it touches everything we're doing in marketing, it touches everything we're doing in customer success. Everyone can integrate it into it under the sun. So it's just a really fun product to be able to like build on and extend and clean up and fix the user experience of and make it as usable and friendly for reps as possible. And ideally, even something that helps reps win deal, win deals instead of you know something that's just helping management track pipeline and forecasts and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

Okay. So in terms of identifying RevOps um and that being different to you know a CRM or sales ops type type type role, any differentiator like black and white divide, or or do you think the two worlds just continue to collide and there's that area of gray in between?

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yeah, uh probably if I say a little of both, then I think there's that area of grill gray in between. One thing to me that's fun about RevOps is because you at least we live in between sales and marketing. And we work, I actually report into our CMO, um, which I know is a little different for RevOps. I love that I wouldn't change anything in the world about that. What I think a superpower for RevOps could be is how are you, as a go-to-market engine for the company, actually helping sellers with opportunities. For example, when looking at the data, we call our stages P1 through P5. P1 very early in the sales process, P5, you practically signed the contract, you know, right? Um, so we're like, all right, how can we looking at data? I'm gonna make something up. Looking at data, we saw that we were having a hard time going from P2 to P3, big drop-off there, right? So, what can we do? Well, we're gonna work with marketing. We're like, okay, well, what if we try this campaign and we try this DoorDash campaign and you know, have a coffee on us and join this webinar, join this door. So we're able to now like put all these different campaigns into play, maybe use outreach or something like that for the templatized approach that our sellers could, you know, send to their prospects. Um, but really like be the glue to help put campaigns that sellers are actually going to want to use and make it easy for them to use because it's gonna be activated right in Salesforce or right in outreach, right? Tools that they're in every day.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Okay. What about when um you know shifting for the mindset from a product background, right? And having a framework that you would follow for building products to more of that strategic commercial revenue supports operations and and you know, this the systems, the products support RevOps and sales, like making that shift from a mindset perspective. What what were the kind of immediate observations you're like I need to change my hat almost from a pro from a product builder mindset to a RevOps leader? Um, any any not challenges, but observations, things you might have struggled on early on in that role, you know, first three, six months, like, oh, I'm doing it again. I'm thinking of, you know, I'm thinking I'm approaching it like I would as if I was building a product.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah. Um made, I'd say the biggest mistake we made early is we got rid of gong uh because you know, talking to Salesforce, they were like, hey, use Salesforce ECI, it's great. 80% of Gong, it's gong light, no problem. Great, sure. We don't have to talk about it. Worst mistake of my professional career. How we can't talk about it, by the way. Feel free.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Um, how a lot of a lot of us, let's say us, don't know what gong is or ECI. Um, so what what is this product?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Oh, sure. So these are uh call recorders, basically, right? Um and your typical call recorders with you know built-in coaching and talk time metrics and stuff like that. And gong is uh more expensive product than ECI because ECI is basically like, hey, well, if you're on Salesforce, this license level, you get ECI. It plugs in, it records all the calls, great, bingo bingo. Not for us, did not do the job. Um, we ended up going with another product, which is Kaya, which is included in outreach, which we use for outbound campaigns and stuff like that from our sellers. So that is actually pretty much where Gong was in terms of quality, but getting rid of Gong for Salesforce's native ECI was a big mistake. Did not do the job.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

It just what the summaries were bad? Well, what didn't it do?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Uh it barely ever got the calls recorded into Salesforce. You had to log into like multiple things all the time to get it to record. The summaries were fine because you can't mess up a transcript, that's easy. Um, but we'd be hard pressed to find the majority of calls even in it. They were not, and then super simple filtering things. So it's like in Salesforce, you know my competitor because it's on every opportunity. So I say, hey, Kaya team, how can I look at calls by this competitor? Oh, you can't do that. Those are actually different databases, and it doesn't not how it works.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Okay, so it's one of the where probably Salesforce border product rebranded it ECI and didn't integrate it well enough.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Yeah, it's uh Einstein conversation.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

I'd say yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, hey, might be great now. Maybe it might be great today. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

I mean it it's it happens with Salesforce, let's say sometimes, particularly when they when they buy it when they buy a new product. Um I want to go back to what you were saying on on um RevOps. And this is the question I think I've asked last time. I don't remember who it was we were talking to. Who was Alaska? Yeah, Mani, that's right. I asked for the thing. Exact same question. Um, it was a great podcast, by the way. Uh, if you're in RevOps, you should definitely check it out. Um, and anyone who's joining this one should probably check out that episode too. Uh check with the plug. So I asked her like, where does CRM end and RevOps start? And is it just a holy overlap? Um, or is like just that you're gonna say CRM software, but people generally don't think of CRM software, or they think of it as the processes of sales marketing, customer service client 360. So yeah, so where do you differentiate between um RevOps and CRM?

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Got it. I want to answer that, but I also I still didn't answer Kira's question about product and RevOps, right? And and Salesforce. So, and it does it require a different mindset, I think was your question. Yep. And yes, but not so much. I'll give an example. When you're in RevOps, sellers come to you and say, I need a field, or I need this competitor at it, or I need this flow built. And it's a lot like product, right? People come to you when you're in product and say, I need X. And when you're product manager, your job is to say, hey, you don't go to the doctor and say, I need penicillin. You say, Well, your symptoms are my throat hurts, I have a cough, I have a sneeze, I have temperature. Doctor says, Sounds like you need penicillin, you have strep throat. So what we've had to do is what I see a lot of RevOps teams do is they take what sellers say they need and they implement. Hey, John said he needs this, awesome. We implemented it high five. We don't do that. We take what our sellers, the pains are, the struggles are, and it's our job to implement that in the best way possible, in the way that makes the most sense or not implement it, right? Depending upon if it's something that doesn't make sense. One easy example is a seller might say, Well, look, there's multiple loss reasons we could lose. So put in a multi-select pick list. If you're listening to this show, you know multi-select pick lists are a nightmare to report on. They pretty much offer no value. And the main reason we're putting loss reasons into Salesforce is to gain value out of it so we can report on it. So that's just like a quick example of like, you know, you listen to the pain, you listen to the struggle, and it's up to us to make sure we are doing the best solution. So sorry, Kira, I didn't I didn't answer that, but I do think there's a lot that a product mindset can bring into RevOps, especially as you expand outside of just the CRM. So we all in RevOps oversee. I'll now tie into the last question, uh uh Matt, like we all in RevOps oversee more than just the CRM, right? Like, at least in our world, we have virtual sales rooms and a sale and a uh um sales CMS through Mind Tickle. We have outbound through outreach, call recording through Kaya, Salesforce. We use this tool called Spec It, um, LinkedIn Sales Navigator. We have a wide world of tools our sellers use. It's up to RevOps to make sure these things are talking to each other. They're all providing value. Sellers are trained on all of them, sellers are certified or all of them, sellers are using them the right way. Um, so I don't think there is a like where does CRM begin, RevOps start? Like, my take is if you're RevOps, every product that sales are gonna use, unless it's an enterprise-wide tool, maybe like Zoom, where you don't really have a authority over, especially if you're a large, highly governed company like a fintech. I mean, it it's up to us to make sure that all of our tool sellers are using our optimal and being used the way they should be, and ultimately benefiting the sellers and Alchemy and our prospects and customers.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

It it sounds like um your RevOps team is still very technical-minded in a sense that you know you're getting involved in implementing, integrating these tools uh with one another, user adoption, training, etc. Um, so so you know, again, there are RevOps teams that maybe are more on the commercial side of it, like maybe traditional sales ops, right? And then whereas your RevOps is is more of a Rev Tech ops um, you know, kind of structure, uh, which is interesting. Do you do you do you think there's an ideal background? Um, you know, obviously your product backgrounds help you, but do you think there's an ideal background? Um, or maybe let me ask a different way. Is there a is there a background that you wish you had a bit more exposure to to make you more successful in a RevOps role? For sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Uh being more of a longtime seller, I spent maybe two or three years in sales, but that was already, you know, 10, 15 years ago. A lot has changed in the B2B SaaS world. I think there's a large benefit of being a someone who recently sold, especially on a RevOps team like ours, which includes sales ops and sales enablement, along with what you call right, like RevTech. Um, so we have our Salesforce administrator. She's terrific. Um, and her background is you know, Salesforce administration for the most part. So she could go and take what the field wants and do implement it the way that it makes sense to be implemented and really take pride in Salesforce and take ownership in Salesforce and make sure Salesforce is clean and a product she's proud of. Um but then from the sales enablement side, under our RevOps umbrella, you know, if you were in sales enablement, especially if you're a loan sales enablement individual, you're gonna get a lot better traction with the field if you were recently a seller. That way you know how they communicate, how they want to communicate, how they want to be communicated to, et cetera. So I think if RevOps and with what we're doing in our CRM, for example, in Salesforce, if you were a seller and you had the pains and you knew the pains of interacting with Salesforce every day, and sometimes the monotony of having to do certain things multiple times a day, you would have a lot more empathy and you'd also come in with a lot more fresh ideas around how to improve the CRM for your sellers.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Mm-hmm. Gotcha. Okay. What about um you I just want to go back to the gong ECI um piece and not to bring up a bad bad experience too much, but um I I the the the question to that was um you know that product mindset versus revops mindset. So do you in that scenario, just just to clarify, yeah, do you did you take that decision based on from a product mindset, like or or was it as a as a revops mindset, like I don't know, commercials, like commercially, we can get a better deal by using X. Well just to clarify, you you led with which which hat in that decision?

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, I led with the RevOps mindset of commercially, gong is X amount of money, yeah. And all we're doing is listening to calls. We're not really using Gong the way it's meant to be used, we're not doing a lot of call coaching, right? Stuff like that. So I'm like, if we're not doing that stuff, and Salesforce has 80% of Gong right here, right? And we had a really good sales rep selling us this and telling us all this, it's like, all right, yeah, we should just go to ECI. That makes sense. Um it turned out it, you know, again, it barely even was supposed to do what it was supposed to do of call record. Um, and finally we had to throw our hands up and just go bring in another product. But it was definitely led with a RevOps budget hat of well, if we remove some money here, now we can invest in other other technology.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah, so so not losing the roots of your product background when making these decisions to assess tech tech, you know, uh within the RevOps tech stack type of thing. Think about it from a product mindset just as much. Um, you know, and and and and like you said, I mean, sometimes the pro the pri it's not a pro issue with the product, it's it's the user adoption. And and you mentioned, you know, a lot of the stuff you weren't using, if you'd known or the team were trained to use it, I'm sure a lot of it could have been beneficial, right? So um there's that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

You wait for the ECI product for for for Gong.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Sorry, you you mentioned marketing decisions was um you know, cost, but but also a lot of stuff that you weren't using and so on.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Um things that we also didn't need, like there are certain feel like at that point it was a little more enterprise than we were at that point three years ago. We didn't need call coaching. That wasn't something at that point we needed. Um so now it's to the point where those are things we want and some things that we need. Uh, but then yeah, it was a little more grown up than we were at the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Yeah. So so maybe maybe building for the future as well is is something that you know I'd hindsight maybe would have taken into consideration. Um 100%. So so sales, you mentioned having a sales background largely beneficial if if you know, if if you if you had a few more years sales experience, more recent sales experience, you feel like that would have would have armed you well to succeed in the RobOps role? Or not that you're not, but you know, what would have made your life a little bit easier, transitioning to that official title. Um the product background's interesting. We we do typically see the traditional path is sales. Um, so what would be your advice to maybe people that are coming from a sales ops, sales enablement, individual sales contributor type background, moving into more RevOps and and and that blend of Rev Tech? Um, I'm sure there's probably a better word for it, but we'll go with RevTech. Um, what would your advice be to those people who are like, you know what, I've sold for 10, 15 years, I want to still be supporting and enabling sales, but I want to move into this RevOps world. And there's obviously a lot of hype around RevOps as a notion, as a as a you know, ideology, etc., right now. So what would your advice be to those uh girls and guys?

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Don't do the job you have to do, do the job you want to do. So if you really want to lean into Rev RevOps, start working with your RevOps team. Start pointing out it you know ideas and start giving solutions to problems that exist. If you're a seller looking to come into RevOps, you also have the benefit of coming in with the orange chords. I'll tell you what I mean. Um, typically, this is an example for someone starting a new job, but if you wanted to switch job functions, you would have the same benefit. So the story goes this guy, John, got a new job pre-COVID. We stall all went in offices, and he's talking to uh the receptionist, and she's saying, Hey, this is where CEO sits, this is the pool table, this is the ping pong table, this is the kitchen, this is the coffee table. And John's Thompson, and John says, Hey, I gotta ask you what's with all the orange cords. And she's like, Oh, those? I don't even recognize those anymore. So the point is when you start a new job or new job function, you get to see all the things that are weird in that job or job function that people who've been doing that job or job function don't even realize or they're doing it weird because they've been doing it that way for so long. So if you're in sales and you want to move to RevOps in your company, start looking out for those things that RevOps is just doing a little weird. What are the orange cords that you would want to come in and fix? Um another thing, not the question, but I think it's a fun, fun conversation to have. I was just talking about at this with uh my CRO last night, is we were talking about what is the path into sales gonna be? Because for the last decade it's been BDR. But now with the latest Apple upgrade, you're getting call screening happening, right? That's gonna put a lot of pressure probably on like Zoom infos of the world. It's also gonna put a lot of pressure in the next year to three years on BDRs because soon not only is it gonna be phone screen, it's gonna be email screening. And when that email goes through, you're just gonna be talking to an AI that's responding to your email sending AI. And ultimately there's like some kind of decision path, which we could all probably just say decline all, and now we're just not getting anything. So the path into sales is gonna be different. I don't think it's gonna be being a BDR in three to five years. I think your path into sales might actually start in sales ops, repops because you're gonna be coming out of school, you're gonna be very technical, you're gonna grow have grown up with AI as a sidekick in high school and college, and you're going to know what products are awesome and what awesome looks like in a technological world. So you would actually probably start off in sales ops, repops, and then want to graduate into solution engineering or account management or new logo.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Cool. So I want to get like a two-part question. Um so just going back to your uh orange cord thing, um it's it's funny because that's something that we always get with tech tech. Like, what is all this crap here? And they're like, oh, but I ain't touching it. It's just the answer. Um, and what happens is you're you're up on the third floor, you find an orange cord, like, what is this garbage? And then you rip it out, and nobody obviously nobody knew what it was. Um, you rip it out, and then the chandelier on the level below comes crashing down. Um, so that that's a technical tech that thing. You try to rip something out, and it just kind of blows up in your face. You gotta be real careful with that. Um, because just because nobody knows what it is doesn't necessarily mean to have a have a purpose, um, particularly when you go through generations of uh employees. The the other question I have, so I talk to a lot of um young people sometimes are very interested in technology, and their their intro to technology nowadays happens like when I was a kid, it was I'm playing with my PS2, right? I'm not my my my IBM PS2, right? Not the PlayStation. Um and and maybe doing some coding, um, you know, whatever it was. Nowadays it tends to be video games. Um, and I I often tell these kids like just because you like eating doesn't mean you're gonna like cooking, right? It's a very, very different thing, right? So just because you like sales doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna like RevOps, if that makes sense, right? Um so what makes a person let's say if you find a good salesman or someone wants to go into RevOps, like what are like say the characteristics of this type of person that you think would be a good fit for it?

SPEAKER_04 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Putting aside having a sales person.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yeah, if you're gonna be in RevOps, you have to be hungry. You want to win even more, if not if not as much as you want to even win even more than sellers want to win. If you're in RevOps, you're just as hungry as a seller, you're just as much as a go-getter as a seller, you are hyper-focused on your sellers, hyper-focused on your prospects, hyper-focused on ideating ways to increase your seller's win rate. RevOps is not an operations first, RevOps is revenue first. It's not called ops rev, it's called RevOps. Let's get revenue. So, number one, if you're gonna get into RevOps, realize this isn't. I'm not gonna say any other function. I want it to be disparaging. You're not in a function that is a support role. You are in revenue. Your job is revenue. So that's number one. Um, you mentioned the orange cords and you know the third floor of the chandelier. Two ways we've helped mitigate that. Uh, one is we have a Salesforce um steering committee. So this is not an orange tape or yellow tape kind of committee, but it just makes sure when we do something, everyone in, you know, everyone who touches Salesforce in the organization, for example, customer success, they know what's being touched. So they could be like, wait, wait, don't do that. Alternatively, if they want to do something, we can be like, wait, don't do that. We actually have this, and it does the same thing. Um, also, what we started to do uh is hide, then delete. So for example, we have fields. We have fields, no one, you have fields, you have fields no one uses. You do, we could all admit it, right? So one, if we're adding a new field, you gotta delete one or two. That's a rule. Two, if you're gonna delete a field or if there's a field that we don't want to use anymore, we hide it and we hide it for three months. And if no one says anything, we're good to delete that field. Um, alternatively, if people say something, great, cool, that field's in use, or maybe not, then we could dig into it. So that's how we've kind of handled the uh the orange cords and chandelier falling.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

How um before we move on to the Salesforce aspect um of how Alchemy leverage the platform um and learn a bit more about that? In your opinion, how should RevOps individuals be incentivized financially? Um sales, you have a quota, you hit quota, you get X percentage. It's very most firms, it's a black and white commission structure, right? Um you can pretty much uh work out what your uh OTE earnings are going to be, etc. With RevOps, how should analysts or you know, support roles, RevOps, you know, uh analysts, managers, product owners, whatever, right? How should they be, like you said, it's revenue first, ops second, they play a part in that deal cycle. How should they be incentivized from a financial perspective, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. I'm gonna answer that a little bit backwards. Uh, my answer to that'll be go to a company where you're comfortable with the way they are going to incentivize you. So if it's a company that is incentivizing RevOps based on overall sales target and hitting that quota, do your research. How many years in a row has that company hit quota? How many quarters in a row have they hit or missed quota? Um, what is missing? How far away are there? What needs to get what is needed to get us over the line? What's my budget to help us get what needed over the line? So I'd say just make sure you're doing your homework and doing your research and choose something that's you're comfortable with for your lifestyle. Because for every company it's different, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Like it let me let me let me ask another question quickly. If you were to build a company tomorrow, your company, uh, you you established a RevOps team, um how would you incentivize that hire? Uh would you would you give them a recognizing that they have a part to play in that revop in that deal cycle, but also they're not the lead salesperson going to market, closing the deal. Would you give them, you know, would their target be, would their incentive be dependent on what the sales team bring in as revenue? Would it be how many deals they can say they directly impacted? Um any ideas? Because obviously a lot of these comp a lot of companies are establishing RevOps teams for the first time, right? Um, I'm sure this must be a conversation that's coming up. Like, do we traditionally do a 10% bonus based on company performance, right? If the company has a good year, like how you would accounting roles, marketing roles, whatever, or is it something that's more quota driven?

SPEAKER_01 41:13

If you are a new company, so I'm gonna assume you're a smaller company, and if you're a smaller company that wants to start a RevOps function, and now I'm gonna assume you're also really small, because we're seeing billion-dollar unicorns, we're seeing unicorns with under 10 employees. There's a one employee, I forgot the name of it, there's a one or two employee unicorn out there today. With AI, to become a unicorn, yeah, it's really, really, really hard, but you don't need the human power to do it. So if you are a startup and you need a RevOps function, I would find one person that is hungry, that knows the technology, that is very savvy, and that could build you a RevOps function, a go-to-market function, and leave into revenue first. Uh that'll last for probably until you hit at least 20 million ARR. At 20 million, if you got to go to two people, sure. But one person should be able to bring you the whole way. How you want to compensate that person, that's up to I'm not, you know, that's up to you. How early are they? Are they getting a stake in the company? There's so many things at stake there. But man, that's zero to 20 play. I can't imagine you're having a team of RevOps people. You just need someone phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

You're not saying that this RevOps person would be doing revenue strategy, also, are you?

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Oh, for sure. Territories, sales compensation, quota attainment. Well, you're doing that with your VP of sales.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Right? Uh uh either the marketing channels I'm gonna use, this is my client profile, my target.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

No, I see that more as marketing function.

unknown 42:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Roman's could help with ICP, like because you have the data, it's not that hard. Um, but you're gonna look at product and marketing to ultimately say, hey, this is what we're gonna go after.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Uh Kira, you had a question?

SPEAKER_03 43:04

No, I think we're about a nice, nice segue over to uh Salesforce. Uh tell tell us a little bit about um your Salesforce footprint. What products do you use? How how many users? Um, you know, were you using Salesforce when you joined the business? What what kind of state was that in? Uh and so on.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Yeah. Um, so we use you know sales cloud. Uh we have hundreds of users on it. We're starting to adopt, um, we're moving, I think we're adopting something on the success side of the house. That is not so much what I do, that is not so much what I touch. Um, couple hundred licenses. Everyone in the organization needs to go in and understand what's going on. Well, why? Why just not sellers? Well, because Salesforce has a lot of information. And if you're pulling a subject matter expert into an opportunity, it's beneficial for them to go into Salesforce and catch up and read everything on that opportunity. Now, of course, that means you have to have good hygiene. On that opportunity, right? Um, so we're primarily using it for you know our sellers, for our SMEs to go in and catch up, our executives to go in and catch up, and then of course, everything, you know, pipeline it feeds a lot of pipeline engine. With the reporting, we do use all sales for Salesforce dashboards, Salesforce reports. Um, some of our mega reports and our better reports and our more in-depth ones, we're actually building those in Looker. Um, so we'll just you know pipeline the information right to Looker and build it in there, just because there's no constraints, right? And dashboard you get 20 reports. That's a constraint. Um, so in order to have no constraints, you can just go build in Looker.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Not Slack, right? Just Looker. So Slack's the front door. I do.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Slack's the front door of data. So if I'm looking for something, I'm gonna start in Slack. The way I look at reports is a reporting house. Slack has to be the front door. If you have a bunch of reports in a bunch of different places, people don't know where to go find those reports. All these reports live on a different house. At least get them in the same house. Now you have one front door. So you could go into Salesforce and type reports, and boom, here are your top five most often activated reports. And now you could go in as a user and click into those reports. So you got to think about the front door to data. It's not just a matter of having the reports because no one's gonna go look for them.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

Uh no, no, I thought you were going.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Keep going with your so so okay, perfect. Um, so in in regards to Salesforce, so um SalesCloud, 100 users, you're obviously integrating other sales uh enablement tools along along with you know tools for reports and dashboards. Um when when you joined, they they already had Salesforce by the sounds of it. You've been there three three and a half years, right? So they they already had Salesforce implemented. Yes. Yeah. What was the backstory of that? They did they go down the traditional route of leveraging a SI to implement? Did you have a tit was there a team of resources you know they had already in the business coming from one CRM to another? What was the CRM, if you know, that that they uh kind of you know shifted from?

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Uh no, it's a great question. So, you know, going back to the beginning of the company, right? Um Salesforce isn't expensive if you started a company back in whatever 2010s. And in 2010s, you had one person to start, and then two, and then five, and then 10. So you start on Salesforce. And this is by the way, the world a lot of us find ourselves in. Even if you're if you're at a thousand per employee company, odds are that Salesforce instance is the same one from 10, 15 years ago. So there's a lot of orange cords and chandeliers. Yeah, you don't want to have the chandelier crashing down, but sometimes it's okay. Sometimes you could get a new chandelier. Uh, so I mean, it probably went back to our founder, right? Who is like, man, I need a way to manage all these banks and credit unions that I'm talking to. I guess I need a CRM. Let's go get a CRM. All right, it's Salesforce. Now I gotta go set this up. And all right, now I need an applications guy. So let me go hire this applications guy to manage a dozen applications or so along with Salesforce. And you know, Salesforce has been changed through the years. The way we have it today is we have an enterprise applications team. They own Salesforce as well, as well as other enterprise-wide applications. Um and then the reason we brought a Salesforce administrator into our team is what we realized is hey, that does not allow us to execute at the speed of sales. By having one centralized repo of folks, we cannot get done what we need to get done in a timeline that fits our needs because those people have a lot of other things they need to do, right? Because they're supporting the whole enterprise. So, what if on RevOps or SalesOps, we bring in an administrator? Our administrator joins enterprise applications scrum, basically dotted lines into that team, but only focused on sales. So that's how we were able to make sure that sales had the primary voice in Salesforce.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Gotcha. So do you think there was a turning point for the business when Salesforce shifted from just being a CRM to like the heartbeat, the go-to platform for everything sales, revenue, sales ops for alchemy? Um was it was it when a certain amount of revenue was was here? Was it when there was a certain amount of people supporting the platform or number of users that had you know been been assigned and on and had access to the platform? Um, or is it or is that turning point still still to come?

SPEAKER_01 49:07

I feel like with AI, that turning point is still to come. And I say that because today, Salesforce is still a very much build and pull platform. If you want a report, you build it, someone pulls it. If you want a dashboard, you build it, someone pulls it. And I picture my CEO or any CEO. A CEO should be able to go into Salesforce and just type, how many opportunities do I have over a million dollars that are set to close this year? Why can't I do that? All of the data exists in Salesforce. Now there are AI tools that are starting to integrate to Salesforce that say they can do that, and I believe them. And we're we're looking at a couple right now. So I think the real power is going to come when you, natural language, can type a question, query all Salesforce data, not just Salesforce, all the tools Salesforce is connected to, and get an action to happen, get your answer to happen, or get your agent to go do something, whatever that something is, right? Go send an email, go send this email about this event to all my prospects that are, you know, this type of business underneath this type of revenue.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

I think automating a lot of that functionality, right? And then just kind of would you expect, therefore, the the coverage that sales teams are in a are able to make expands, therefore, more more info, data, et cetera, is going to be entered into Salesforce in theory. There's gonna be more more value um from the platform, and then therefore that's gonna drive further licenses and products and you know, and so on. Is that kind of a the trend that you foresee? Or um do you think there's gonna be alternative systems that you know with AI that's possible, you know, do you think you might have to expand outside of the Salesforce suite of products?

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Recently, Salesforce and Slack announced that they were no longer allowing, and I think the article is it was like gleaned, I remember pulling out of the article, but basically they're blocking AI tools, some AI tools, from accessing all or some of Salesforce and Slack data.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

It was this morning.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

That's not a good position to be in. Um you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, yeah. It's it's Reddit started it. Twitter took the next step. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Um But Reddit and Twitter don't have my company information.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Oh, I know. Yeah uh I I forgot there was one this morning that was pretty big that kind of just locked it down too. I I it might have been Slack. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Well, yeah, exactly. That was the Salesforce Slack one. Um what it what that does to me is it makes me really, really think about actually moving off of Salesforce. If I can't make my data usable in any tool I want to use it in, if you're that scared, Salesforce, that your product is not giving enough benefits as Salesforce that you have to block connectors that are secure, ISO compliant, etc., that says something a lot about you if you feel the need to do it.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

I I don't think that's happening. Sorry to sorry to cut you off. I I can't imagine they're gonna lock you out.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

No, let's let's look at hold on, let's quick quick Google. Um, you know, I just saw the uh article. Who sent it to me? Salesforce blocks competitors from using Slack data. So what? And it's on CX today. Salesforce is moved to block other software firms from searching or storing Slack messages.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Other software firms. That's third party. So I I think what they're talking about is like an OAuth type app, not you as the customer.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

No, but me as the customer wants to use another software to plug in and get you know, extract my Salesforce, my Slack data into this third party because this third party might be better at AI or MI summarization or reporting, etc.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah, I think you can. Uh you just got to do it through middleware. Meaning you pull that out yourself and then push it. They're not gonna let the third party OAuth direct connect to it, maybe. I don't know. We'll see.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

Yeah, I mean that's that's a pain too, because with the middleware, I mean, anyway. Morticon, gotta learn, not gonna pretend to know everything about it. But uh to block a company like you know, I know Glean was mentioned in the article. Like to block a company that's really good at AI summarization from this data because you want people to use Slack AI instead of Glean AI, that's not that cool. I'm curious your thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Oh no, no, I I kind of agree with you, particularly if you're if you're you're approving it as the customer. Um it's your data, so why would they block a native API? But again, I'm not it's it doesn't sound like it can't be done. It just sounds like it can't be done natively.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

And if it's not done natively, you're introducing more risk in your data being, you know, the more places you hand off your data, the more risk you're putting in to bad actors, right? You don't want to have multiple handoffs. Ideally, there's a direct connection that's very secure.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Yeah, I just don't know much about this. I don't want to, I don't want to speculate.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Same. It's totally over my head. So um I'll let you you guys uh challenge each of a we'll put a giant speculation on that whole last five minutes, but if that's the case, then that's not that cool. Um yeah, it's a question mark for sure, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Um something that needs a bit more clarity context than uh it is, but the qu you know to answer the question, Kiro, it's like where is that inflection point for Salesforce, you know, really becoming that strategic lever? I think it's coming. Because right now it's still pretty much a data warehouse, but like a kind of clean data warehouse because we do keep it pretty clean. But it feels like so soon we're gonna be able to seamlessly act on that data versus manually acting on the data by reviewing pipe and reviewing dashboards and reviewing reports, etc.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yeah. Okay. What about um so so give us uh an idea of just general philosophy of for yourself and you know the the company when it comes to you know continuous customization of Salesforce? Um, are you are you leaning more towards declarative? Uh are you going into more Apex custom code? Do you have a preference? Is it case by case? Um, you know, what what's your kind of ideology around that?

SPEAKER_01 55:59

We're doing some pages that are in Apex custom code. Uh I've been like telling our Salesforce admin, like, learn it. That that stuff's cool. This language isn't going away. Salesforce is a behemoth, they're not going away. It's a good thing to learn and only continue to upskill yourself and upskill, you know, your future as a Salesforce administrator. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

Cool. Okay. Um what about um what about from a future standpoint? We touched on that a little bit with some of the changes that uh are coming through and announcements and so on. Um automation is uh uh agent force. Um is is that something that you're you know you're looking at your AEs have have talked to you about? Is that something that's on the menu for you in Alchemy, any other products or or or areas that you're exploring um within the Salesforce family uh in the in the near future?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Yep, we're looking at a handful of different AI products to help us. Because we are in such a highly regulated field and industry, it is not as easy as just saying we allow this product if it involves AI. We have an entire AI steering committee, which is also a, you know, that is very much to check the security of this AI. Are we sharing information with the model? Is that shared information then made public, et cetera, et cetera? That's just the high-level stuff, right? So we're looking at tools, we're bringing a couple in. I don't want to say who we selected, but we're bringing in a couple different AI solutions. But um, yeah, so we're bringing some in, but it's a really like strenuous approach to ensuring safety, security, access controls, etc.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

Mm-hmm. Shifting back to RevOps uh for for a second. Um any any general trends or areas of innovation that you think uh the RevOps uh space will undergo um in the next 12 months and any advice on how teams should prepare to get themselves ready for that?

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Yeah. I'll go back to dashboards or where data goes to die. Uh we're gonna be in a world where your CEO or your Reverend New Leader is just gonna go into Slack like they do Chat GPT, and they're gonna say, we're going to whatever, and they're gonna say, how many deals do I have? And hey, analyze my how many deals do I have in P in P3 that are set to close by this day, over a million dollars. Or hey, analyze my TAM and print out the optimal territory next year based on win rates and state, right? Like all the data exists. The machine's gonna be able to quantum to crunch all the numbers at a pace no human can. And we're just gonna be living in that world. Um, and I can't wait for it. It's gonna be exciting. Like, why do you need a data dashboard when every day through Slack or whatever, you're basically GPT could send you the reports you care about, and not just the whole report, the most interesting thing from the report and a narrative on the reports, right? Like one thing I think is a superpower of RevOps is you're closer to sales and pipeline and win loss and competitors than anyone else in the company. So when you're looking at data, it's not just ones and zeros, you're putting a narration behind the data. And I always make sure when we're sharing information, we're sharing it with our narrative to the field, because otherwise the field is probably gonna have a sense of recency bias when they look at data and they're gonna remember what most recently have to happen to them. So we want to make sure we're always narrating and you're gonna get all of that from you know, from a bot soon enough. And it's gonna be just a just a level up because now all these things that we're doing, more we're focused on dashboards and we're focused on reports, we're gonna be able to be focused on even more up-level things and more strategic things and more exciting things to continue to help our sellers maybe help our sellers utilize AI.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Yeah, just to challenge your point on the dashboards, um, there is a very solid use case that I don't think is going away, and it's probably the biggest use case for dashboards today, is where I look at the same exact 12 questions every morning. How am I doing this month compared to last month? How am I doing today compared to last day? How many calls do I have in my queue? How many customer service reps are sitting on their hands? Um, right? Uh, how's my factory line moving? Why is it a same?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:37

Why is it why is it a why is it a dashboard?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Sometimes TV on this on the screen. Because it's very quicker to read to the eyes. You don't want to click, right? You want to see the whole thing in one shot.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

Yeah, but a dashboard, you're still looking at reports and graphs and bars. Why is it not just a quick plain you know set of three tweets like, hey, these are your stall deals. This John hasn't made his calls, and right, like all the information you have in that repetitive dashboard that you care about a lot. One, you don't need to see all 12 reports every day because only something changed in three of them. And you could get that top line in plain text, or it could also embed graphs, right? I mean, you could see that in terms of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

I'm honestly not sure people want to read whole sentences. I mean, time will time will tell. Um, I'm gonna be honest, I don't be uh see a CEO typing what are my top 15 up. Maybe they'll dictate it, probably is more likely, and then it will spit out. Um, kind of like you know, like with Apple and Siri or or on your on your cell phone, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yeah, it's fairly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Yeah, yeah, it's true. Um, that's a much more likely use case, I think, than them actually typing the the question. Um, but I I I don't like particularly for financial type and no numeric people, I just don't see them going away from looking at the same exact report day over day, week over week, um, and kind of like discussing it. All right, how are our top accounts doing? What are the top accounts? Did they change? Um, and there's there's something to say for the familiarity and the repetitiveness of it, that it's always exactly the same, also adds a tremendous uh, I think, amount of value. Um, I think it's a value of dashboards today, at least. Um, and I just don't see that piece going with it. Um, just my two cents.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

The time will take. We can make a we can do a futures bet together.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Yeah, I mean I gotta follow up with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

I'll I'll referee it um and we can we can tune back in 12 months from now and and see see what the latest is. But um Ethan, we asked you a question uh during the rapid round, uh, which might put you on the spot a little bit. Um, if if Salesforce uh was a superhero, uh, what would its superpower be? Matt's liked your response, but um, did you give that question any more thought?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Uh it'd be information, man. Salesforce is really good at keeping information, at capturing information. Uh again, it's a database. Um, so it's an informational database, and it's up to you to go and extract that information, right? But uh Salesforce is good at storing information in a way that's logical, and it's also to us to go make that beneficial to our company.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:23

Fantastic. And I think it's pretty uh UI-wise compared to some of the systems that I've seen. It's a lot more friendlier as well. It's easier to diagnose that information and and see it in theory, right? I know we touched on some of the dashboard stuff, but um, but but a conversation for another time. Well, well, um Ethan, um that that's that's a wrap. Um, you know, we we uh we appreciate your time and joining us today for uh today's today's show. We uh we covered quite a lot uh from RevOps to Salesforce, dashboards, competitor competitor insights, and a few other topics in in in and there between. So uh just want to say a big thank you uh for your time and getting involved in in being a guest in the CRM Success Show. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Yeah, thanks for having me. I know this was a little less technical on the CRM side than some of your episodes because I have listened to some, but uh I think sometimes that's a little bit more fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:13

Absolutely. Um for our listeners, please do not forget to subscribe to the CRM Success Show for more episodes featuring leaders like Ethan, uh, who are truly shaping the future and uh present of the CRM space. Uh, you can follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube uh for more exclusive updates and content. Uh thank you.