SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome! You are listening to the CRM Success Show, where you will hear from CRM executives who have overseen some of the most interesting and complex CRM implementations. Your hosts, David Mossri and Kira Whitey, will be bringing you real stories, real insight. Follow along on social media for updates on new episode releases, exclusive content, and much more. Enjoy the show and thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Welcome to the CRM Success Show, where we deep dive into CRM success and failure, delivering real stories with real impact. I'm Dave Menasry, and I'm Kier Owitzi. And today we're talking with Carlos Boyd, who will be telling us about his time with One Share Help. Welcome, Carlos.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

Thank you. It's good to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

And um for our audience, we appreciate you uh sacrificing some time uh to speak with us today. Umlast the cowboys are on obviously we can see you're you're supporting the uh the polo. So fingers crossed for a uh cowboys win.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Um within boys.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Um right, Carlos. Um can you start by just giving us a bit of an intro about your background um in the tech space and high-level uh background on what share help for us?

SPEAKER_04 1:14

Sure. So um I've been in Salesforce Atmos or the Salesforce um ecosystem for maybe 11, 12 years, 13 years, I think. Uh started out as an admin and kind of moved my way up from there. Uh while I was at OneShare, uh, I was director of CRM technology and uh kind of ran the Salesforce um installation there. Uh kind of built it out from scratch, had had a team uh built that uh that worked with me. Um so yeah, that that's kind of a little bit of uh a background on me. As far as One Share Health, uh if anyone is familiar with uh kind of health share uh companies, they do something similar to uh health insurance, providing you know payments to uh healthcare providers for different services and stuff. Um it's a little bit different from insurance. There's uh slightly different rules that are involved, but uh it it fills a gap in in the market.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

So one of the big differences, my understanding, is um I guess it's called the health share. Is that the technical? Yeah, health share, yeah, is that you guys are a nonprofit, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:33

So it it's a nonprofit. Uh I'm not with them anymore. Um, but yeah, it is uh it is a nonprofit. Um there are some, like I said, there's some very similar things to to health insurance, but um it's kind of a niche market for church groups, uh gig workers, people that are self-employed, that don't have access to to health, the traditional health insurance, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Okay, awesome. So well, why don't you take us back to you know to the the beginning, I guess, when you joined OneShare, um what problems they were facing, how they decided to you know roll out a CRM system sided on Salesforce, right? That whole getting started process.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

Yeah, so when I got to OneShare, uh it had recently just gotten started. It was a startup. Um they were using some I don't even remember the name, but some old antiquated system of of uh uh CRM, and uh they were looking to move to something that was a little bit more uh robust, something that gave some more reporting and something that did uh better tracking of customers and and their sales team. And uh so one of their uh C-suites, uh I worked with him previously, and he knew I was you know in working in the Salesforce space and and uh they wanted to move in that direction. So he gave me a call and said, Hey, you mind coming in and and you know talking to us and let's see if we can make something work out and and you can help us get this you know Salesforce installation up and running. So um so that's what we did.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Okay, awesome. So what were like the core goals of implementing Salesforce? Were they to drive sales, was it marketing, customer service?

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Actually, it's it's a little bit um not weird, maybe a little bit strange. Um the main focus was uh recruiting um salespeople, uh which they call brokers. So like a lot of the lead to opportunity and accounts, um you know, flow was based off of bringing in um different brokers from around the country, and and the brokers in turn went out and actually did the sales. Um there were you know, there was tracking of of customers and what plans and stuff they had in Salesforce, but the main focus was uh, and it's a reason that they moved to Salesforce was to uh um to grow the the broker space, you know, the the people that were out selling the the plans for the company.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Okay, cool. So did that change or did that how it stayed?

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Um yeah, I think that's how it stayed. I mean, you know, at the time that I left, um it was still, you know, focused on the the broker and the whole broker experience. But I mean the the the tracking of the customers and and purchasing of the plans directly from the company that was on uh upward trend, upper trajectory, trajectory, um at the time. And uh I think they continued to build on that so that you know there was more focus on on inside sales. Um we had part at the time, and um, so you know, we were marketing was doing campaigns to try to bring in uh customers directly, you know, through their campaign efforts and and through the web page and and not um rely solely on the the broker to go out and make the sales, which is more profitable in the end, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Right, right, of course, right? So so it wasn't just recruiting the brokers, getting the brokers in and then I guess enabling them to do sales. Um okay, so do you guys like how'd you guys measure success? Like what were your core KPIs?

SPEAKER_04 6:42

So um yeah, we had area VPs, you know, and they had uh certain metrics that they had to hit as far as uh how many brokers they had and how many sales they made. Um, and then of course, you know, there's the uh compensation based on the number of sales and and how long customers stay with you. And um so I think that was the main driver of of success was uh the number of sales that were made by by each team on a consistent basis.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

So very traditional, some very traditional sales rolls up to a VP, they are getting judged based on or ranked based on um based on new sales, and I guess and longevity. Um so it's like a very subscription-based model, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Yeah, the model was the model is subscription-based. So someone could come on and and uh and this is one of the differences between this type of healthcare um not insurance, because not, but but in providing healthcare uh payments and services. Um one of the differences between this and and like uh traditional insurance because someone could literally come on today and sign up for a month and then you know a month later be gone. Whereas, you know, traditional insurance, you know, you get it through your your uh your employer, and then you know it's valid for you know the time that you're employed. It could be a year, it could be two years, five years, um, but you're you know, you're you're kind of locked into into that plan. Um, you know, once you go through open enrollment, sign up. Um but with uh with HealthShare, you know, you can sign up for a month, two months, three months, um, and then stop.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Okay, so yeah, sorry, Sarah.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Um so so I I just want to kind of go backwards a little bit to go forwards. Um tell us a little bit about the selection process for Salesforce. Um, you know, what did that look like? Um, why did you choose Dell Sports versus maybe other CRMs that are out there like Zoho, Blackboard, Monterra, HipSpot, you know, some of these that have other kind of nonprofit uh offerings. Uh why why did you guys choose to choose Dell Sports?

SPEAKER_04 9:01

You know, um when I got there, it it it had already the contract had already been signed and they already had it, had been about a week the first day that I started. Uh but when I asked about it, um, I think one of the major drivers was the 10 pre-licenses, right? You they're a nonprofit, um, it's a very well-known CRM. You know, it's got the biggest market share. Uh, so I think the fact that they said here are 10 licenses if you want, you're a nonprofit, you know, you can go to town with these. I think that that was probably the main driver. Um, but then second after that was probably the capabilities of of of what it could do and and how well it acts as a CRM and um the ease that we were able to uh take the um the customer base from the old CRM and import into Salesforce. Um, you know, that was some of the first priorities that we had when when I got started. Um, but I think you know it was probably those two factors. First, you know, they were given it free so they can get started, and then you know, just the reputation that Salesforce has as being you know the top CRM in the world, basically.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Understood. And and um uh I guess in terms of the licenses that they they they gave one share. Am I right in understanding it was more kind of sales cloud versus mpsp? And and again, if it was, why any reason why that was the case?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Was it kind of pre-mpsp or um well this was 2017 or 2018, 2018, I think. I started in 2019 there. Um so I think it was just you know for the sales cloud factor, um it was enough just for them to get started. And I think, you know, I honestly, because they didn't have a Salesforce person when they started, like I said, I started like a week later. Um, I think it was just on the recommendation of of that same C-suite that I had worked with previously, and and he recommended it because when we worked together previously, you know, we worked in Salesforce. So he was used to that. Uh he knew someone that knew a lot about Salesforce, which was me. Uh, so I think that um more of the driver for this particular decision was um kind of outside what you know the traditional decision that you might make, you know, what can it do and what functionality does it have? And it was more so, okay, you know, I know someone that works with this system, I've used it before, and I and he was the kind of the main driver in making that decision. But I mean that says says a lot for Salesforce, right? Because uh it's something that we used previously in the company. It's like, hey, here's a startup. What do we want to use? It's like, hey, let's use Salesforce. So um, you know, it says a lot about Salesforce when when you go somewhere else and you have a choice and you can say, you know, let's do this or let's do that. And still the the suggestion was to use Salesforce.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

That's great. So an aspect of being, you know, a known entity, you you know, previous use of Salesforce, the talent that was inside the business had that Salesforce expertise, the actual product capabilities, um, one being kind of the the migration of previous entity data, uh, you know, kind of CRM data to Dalesports, and then the icing on the cake was the the the free the free licenses to get.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

The free licenses, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

I think they know that, right? They know that's gonna pull in a lot of people. I've actually worked with um um just recently, uh worked with a school in the Caribbean, uh and they were they were using basically spreadsheets and PDF documents to to manage their school, their students and grades and all this. And uh uh my son actually worked there. And uh so I suggested to him to, you know, have you guys looked at Salesforce to manage this? And he was like, Well, no, not really. And uh and then we presented it to them, right? So him and I, we sat out, we got a uh um a demo org, and we kind of built out a little bit of it to show them what it could do because he's not Salesforce certified, my son, but uh he's you know pretty savvy and and he's used it before. And we actually presented it to him, and they actually uh gave him a contract to to build it out. So now they're using it, they're using Salesforce. Yeah, that was pretty neat.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

I hope they uh so they got your own commission there.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Nah, it's my son, so he he can take the money.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

I think he's in Salesforce.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Um yeah, Salesforce, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Discount licenses on the back end.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, yeah. So uh into that, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

So for our listeners, if you don't know, this is still a thing. If you're a nonprofit, Salesforce will give you 10 free licenses. I don't know the exact process, I don't know, Carlos. If you know that process, you just call them up and say, hey, uh 10 free licenses, and you give them your nonprofit number or something.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah, so um there's actually a page you go to. Like it was my first time helping him, you know, to walk him through this process. But um there's a page you go through, it's I think it's called Power of One. Um Power One or Power of Us, something like that. Uh, but then you go to the page and and you register there, and and then they ask for certain documents, like your nonprofit and some other things. Uh, it goes to like whoever your area um account exec is. There's one that covers all the Caribbean, so um, so it went to him, and then uh he would um get the licenses from from Salesforce, and uh and then an email would come, and then I think my son just had to click on a link, and then it started the whole installation process and the setup and all that. So uh it was fairly easy. Uh, I think the the hardest part was maybe the document portion, making sure you have the right documents, and then somebody reviews it and comes back and you know checks it off as as being good. Uh, but all in all, in honest, in all honesty, I think from the time that he started until the time that it was up and running and he couldn't log in, it might have been four or five days. Oh wow. So pretty quick, yeah, it's pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, so uh for our listeners, we'll find that link, we'll put it in the podcast description for you. So if you want to sign up, um it's there. Uh awesome. So, Carlos, why don't you take us back to uh again towards the beginning, right? So now you're you're in place, you're leading this uh this project or this initiative. Um, so how did you go about that, right? How did you plan this? How did you prioritize? What was your game plan?

SPEAKER_04 15:58

Well, you know, I don't know if you worked in a startup before, but uh prioritization, everything is prioritized when when you're in a start in a startup. So it was literally the the first maybe two or three weeks, it was literally someone would come to my desk and say, we need this field, and then it was just bang out the field and directly in production, right? Um and it was like that for a little while, just until it got to the point where okay, we've got everything here that we're trying to to uh to um track, you know, as far as the brokers, because it was focused on brokers at the time in the beginning. Um, but then simultaneously I was given one rec to hire an admin and then another and then another, and ended up with I think three admins, uh two admins, one developer and uh one QA slash BA type person. Um but that that was pretty much the start. Um once the team got formed and things started slowing down, then we tried to kind of pump the brakes on the flyby like flybys, you know, to your desk and say, hey, we need this today, before the end of the day, and had to start to build out a process to to release changes into the org. So I convinced them to go with Jira. So we started using Jira, and people would go in and put in, you know, their requests. You know, there was a customer service team that was built out, there was marketing that was built out, there was collections, and all these different teams were built out, and they were all in Salesforce. So um, so we got Jira, and and everyone would go to Jira and put in, you know, what whatever it was they wanted. We built out a two-week sprint process, um, released dates, published all of that, and um and then basically got started from there.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

So it sounds like it was very agile, you didn't put together a formal um a formal process. You kind of worked out your business processes at the same time you were building out Salesforce.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

At the same time.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Because you guys were a startup. Exactly. Yeah, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

And and the last thing that a CEO of a startup wants to hear is that you know, something is gonna take two weeks if it could be done in 20 minutes or five minutes, you know. Some things in Salesforce are click a button, but if you take it through the whole development process, it might take you two weeks to click that button, right? Um, but you know, in the beginning, you have to be nimble, you have to to move fast, and and uh and you just gotta be ready to roll it at any time. So that's what we do.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Kind of kind of two quick questions. You ever take a step back and like say let's get in proper DevOps, sandboxes, deployment procedures, that kind of stuff. Um, and did you ever think about bringing in outside help like a partner, or with this all in-house?

SPEAKER_04 18:53

It was it was mainly in-house. Um, once once things kind of slowed down a little bit to to where it was more manageable, that's when um when I suggested that we go with Jira and also Capado. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Capado. Uh, we ended up going with Capado and built out all these sandboxes and built out a development pipeline, and you know, each admin and each dev had their own sandbox, and now they were getting stories out of Jira, and they could work in their own sandboxes, and we use Capado to move things through uh the development pipeline to to a merge sandbox to QA to UAT and then release it in production. Um, you know, we standardized that, and uh, I mean that you know that worked well. That that got things into more of a um organized manner of doing things rather than you know just willy-nilly throwing things into production with without any proper testing or or proper development.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah, so um any issues getting that into a two-week cycle? Because it's kind of small, no? Two-week releases are tough, right? Two weeks two week releases are tough, right? So if you're doing agile two-week releases and you're going through the whole deployment process, any issues with that? How'd that work out?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

No, um before we you know set up that development process, we we we took the two weeks and um broke it down into how many days we needed for development and how many days we needed for QA and for testing and UAT um demos and things like that. And and and actually we didn't have any issues with with the the two-week sprint up front. Um, it worked well. Um we were able to publish release dates at the the end of each sprint. So people knew, you know, if I've got this project, like customer service has some project going on and and they need us to build out you know some case types in in uh uh in the service um service cloud to you know for for whatever is happening, you know, customers are gonna start calling in about something. Um but uh they knew that hey, there's a release date at the end of this two-week cycle or you know, at another, and and so they were able to um to work off of that, and and actually it it it didn't present any problems to us basically.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Um I just want to ask a question uh about the the team uh and part of the team and and kind of how that journey looked like. So you start off with 10 licenses, you're there two and a half years. When you when you finished, roughly how many licenses did you have in in New York?

SPEAKER_04 21:37

Yeah. Well, we started off with the 10 licenses. I think when I got there, um and I got my license, I was number 11, license number 11. So they actually had to call salesman say, okay, we need another license. So I think that's when they first started paying for licenses when I came on board. Um but we ended up with who. Maybe 300 or so licenses by the time I left, two and a half years.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Good. So it's solid growth. Because a question I often get asked by first-time Salesforce customers who are a couple of years in, growing their org, you know, when when should I hire support? And you know, what should that skill set be? Should it be admin? Should it be development, right? Should it be the QAs that you mentioned you got? Should it be a business analyst? Should it be a combination of the two? And you know, obviously, Salesforce generally advised every 100 to 150 users, depending on how compact your org is, with integrations, etc. You want one kind of full-time designated resource, right? So I guess based on that model, you had a team of five in its at its highest point, um, with with around uh you know 300-ish users. Um some might say that was maybe a bit top heavy, uh, you know, in terms of you know more more um more resources than needed based on the Salesforce recommended guideline. But I think it's important uh to know that you know you weren't just doing Salesforce right, you were doing integrations with things like Net Suite as well, um, as part of that.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um What is the Salesforce recommended guideline of admins or devs to users?

SPEAKER_03 23:20

So it changes, um, but roughly, um, and we can include this in the in the link as well, um, but that generally it's it's around one full-time 40-hour a week resource per 150 users, 100 to 150 is one, um, and then they they rank it based on complexity of the org um and so on. But generally, all of them, every 100 to 150 uh users, they recommend one full-time resource. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

I hadn't I hadn't heard that before, so that's yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

They learn something new every day, so we're gonna include that.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Well, basically, I need to go to my current boss and ask for a head count.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

There you go. Um, but but but again, this was kind of um this pre-pandemic, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Yeah, I started uh with OneShare pre-pandemic.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Um maybe eight, ten months before the pandemic.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

And you were you were on site in hours. Um so so how how um I guess being a non-profit, were there any challenges that different to kind of being in the commercial space, be it budget restraint, be it attracting individuals that were interested in nonprofits? Any anything that was kind of different from your experience working in the commercial sector?

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Um I mean, I think the biggest difference was that things move faster.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Really?

SPEAKER_04 24:45

Um, yeah, decisions were made faster, which isn't always a good thing. Because, you know, something pops up and and like literally someone could go to the CEO and say, We've gotta have this, whatever, you know, and then and he'd be like, You really need that? I was like, Yeah, all right, you know, and he'd sign off and and we'd have it. And uh, you know, we'd end up with things that we thought were great that worked, you know, for a minute or two, and then it just sat there for the rest of the year, you know, while while we waited for the contract to run out. Um, but things like that happen a lot. Things move very fast, decisions are made very fast in a startup. Um, and I think I mean there's you know, they're still in business, it's not like they're out of business, but I think some startups um don't do well because they make decisions too fast and uh and then end up wasting a lot of money and um not being able to survive.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

It's interesting because you know I know the stereotype um is nonprofits, public sector, you know, generally moves slower, um, decisions take a long time, you know, maybe there's budget you know challenges that that they have to overcome. But and and on the contrary, you know, startups fail fast mentality, right? Um, but I I think it you know it is interesting, particularly from a tech standpoint, we've certainly seen you know, some nonprofits are at the forefront of tech because they get so many like uh discounts on licenses or or you know access to trials and things like that, right? So sometimes for an individual looking to get exposure uh to new systems and technologies, nonprofits isn't a bad choice uh to make by any means. And you know, some of the biggest Delta uh customers are in that kind of non-profit public sector space. So um so interesting there. Um in terms of I guess along that two and a half year journey, um outside of the the concept of the startups and the nonprofit, you know, outside of that, um anything that kind of was unexpected um when you were when you were kind of going through this kind of growth period and and you know getting more users on Salesforce, any any kind of surprises or unexpected challenges that um you you you saw through that process well I mean the the first um the first surprise was that when I got there um and I had found out that they had Salesforce for about a week when I got there, was that they didn't have anyone that knew Salesforce.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Um big shock.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

So the big shock. Um, I think um some girl learned how to put fields on a page layout, and so they would tell her, put this field here and put this field there. And so she was doing that. Uh, but I think that was that was the biggest shock. Um the other thing I think was probably uh the fact that the like the development process or the development cycle, you know, hadn't really been thought about. Um, you know, maybe there wasn't a ton of uh experienced people that would have in the beginning said, okay, hey, when we start developing here, you know, this is what we need to do, we need to, you know, adopt agile methodology or or something. So um not only was I doing Salesforce and leading a Salesforce team and trying to build out a brand new installation, which by the way, you know, probably 90% of admins never see one from scratch. Um, and I was fortunate in that company to see two from scratch, uh, because I had a partner company that said, Oh, you guys are doing great with Salesforce. Can you help us with that? And so the CEO had us delegate so many hours a week to building out a second um Salesforce installation in another company simultaneously. Um but you know, just that it was surprising not having that experience where uh someone said, you know, here's what we need to do, and and here's how we need to map it out. And it it was really just make fast decisions and send send someone an email and say, Hey, I need this. And um I don't want to say it was unorganized, it was just very fast. And and with me, I mean that's okay. Um, but I saw the need that we need to slow it down, so uh I had to build out some things that I would have thought that would have already been there, like um you know, Jira ticketing system for for taking in work or changes or whatever, um, a sprint process and a uh um testing process and all that stuff. I I didn't think I was gonna have to do that. Um, I would have thought that that was there, and I was just gonna concentrate on Salesforce, but had to do all of that in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

So that was a little bit of a just a startup, man. You gotta do everything.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

You wear a lot of hats in a startup.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Yeah, everybody wears a lot of hats. Right. So this is back 2017, 2018, you said, right? Um Salesforce, the Salesforce market was hotter than 19. Yeah, even better. So the Salesforce market was definitely hotter then. Um nonprofits, at least the job market, right? Nonprofits and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not even me, but the reputation is that they tend to have lower budgets. Um and in the in the Salesforce ecosystem, sometimes you say people don't want to work there, they think that they're not gonna pay as well. Um, any any issues? Uh I mean, I don't know if you agree with that assessment. That that tends to be the you know the sentiment. Um so so any issues attracting talent and you know, how did that kind of play?

SPEAKER_04 30:50

So so it's uh um it's funny that you asked that question because normally in in a startup, and I haven't worked in another startup before, um, but that's my that was my understanding that the budgets were low and to get things in the start off is a nonprofit that I'm saying. Well, okay, I'm sorry, non nonprofit. Um, you know, budgets are lower uh because you know, and they're always looking, you know, software, whatever for discounts, um, just because it's it's nonprofit, right? Um, but in this particular case, um, like I don't want to get into specifics about health share or one one share in in specific, but it was very cash flow heavy. So financial decisions were not difficult, and that can be good, but then that can be bad. And in this case, sometimes it was good, and I think my opinion, sometimes it was bad.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

How is that ever bad?

SPEAKER_04 31:47

How is it bad?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yeah, how can that be bad?

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Okay, so uh, how could it be bad? Because on any given day, someone could, like I said, go to the CEO and say, Hey, we need this, and you go, and like I said, I don't want to get into specifics, right? Uh, but we could sit down with a vendor and they could say, Okay, this is gonna cost you forty thousand dollars a year, and then he's like, Okay, do it. And then uh, you know, two, three weeks later realize, okay, that's not really what we need. We really need something else. Um, and we're probably not gonna use that, but we already paid it for the year, so then it just sits there, you know, nobody uses it. And another decision is made a few weeks later to get the next latest and greatest. It was afforded the opportunity to do that, and that's not always a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

So then I think it goes back to your going too fast, going too fast, right? It it kind of yeah, okay. So obviously that's right, that's one of your strongest lessons learned, right? Yes, think it through, let's say, right? Think it through and speed to market, maybe it's not everything. So, so uh what else, man? What else did you learn? Any interesting anecdotes that really like taught you a good solid lesson. Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

I think that's where I learned to voice a little bit more. So up until that point, just kind of a little history uh on me. Up to that point, I had been admin for a while, I had been senior admin for a while, and this being a startup and and them not having anyone that had Salesforce and knowing one of the C-suites, um, this was my first opportunity to actually lead a Salesforce um instance, right? Um, so uh this was my first director role, and uh I think I did a good job. Um but uh I had to learn to, I think probably by the time I left, learn to speak up a little bit more, you know, to take charge a little bit more and uh voice my opinion a little bit more. I probably didn't do that enough in some instances, uh probably until a little bit later down the line, as I got a little bit more comfortable. Um, but yeah, that's the that was a huge lesson for me because in other areas of my life, like I'm a former Marine, right? I'm I've never had any issues telling someone what I thought or or you know being outspoken or anything. Um but uh but I probably held back a little bit, I think, just because it was my first instance that I was actually in charge of, and you know, didn't want to cause too many waves, although I could see like things move very fast, maybe they should slow down, or some things they move fast enough and we should speed up, you know. Um, so I think that was a big big lesson. Communication, um being a little bit more outspoken.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

So you are you talking about uh like to senior higher ups, your boss? Are you talking about oh okay, yeah, because that was sure if you were talking about you know, sometimes to to uh underlink. I know I have this issue to underlink people who report to you. I I know I have this issue, something like me, you know, I give them that's how you learn, right? You give them a lot a long a long leash, let's say. Yes, um, because you want them to learn and to try things and and potentially fail, because sometimes the lesson from the failure is val more valuable to their growth, right? Yeah, um, than the impact of the failure. So I wouldn't sure if you were you know which way you were going.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

Um yeah, yeah, it it was definitely up up the chain um to to my direct reports, it was never an issue. Um the nice thing, and in that being the first, like my first director role, my first um um my first role when I had direct reports um in the Salesforce um ecosystem. Um I was able to hire everyone. So, you know, the the interaction, the rapport, and everything was built from scratch, and and we would learn things together. And so, you know, we gelled as a unit. Um, you know, I've got a couple of roles since then where I've gone into you know uh a place where my direct reports were already there before I got there, so it's a different kind of vibe, it's a different atmosphere. Um, but there, no issues down. But I think I probably could have been a little bit more outspoken, a little bit more vocal in the beginning, uh up the chain, which you know it got better as time went on. But um, but like I said, it was my first time.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

So do you do you think um people talk about imposter syndrome, right? Um and the sense of belonging and and you know, um feeling maybe a bit outside your comfort zone. Um do you it sounds like that was uh a factor for you? That was something you were experiencing in that moment, right? Like oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

That that played a big role in it, you know, um, because it was the first time it was like, okay, you know, how strongly do I make this suggestion to my boss or to his boss, you know, if he asked me something. Um, or you know, if something comes from above that's recommended and I know that this is probably not the best idea, you know. And do I speak up? Am I qualified to speak up? You know, should I speak up? All those questions pop up into your head, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:31

I've got two two follow-on questions for you, just on the topic of leadership, and we'll we'll move on. Um, the the first is is around your your leadership style, the six years you spent with the Marines, give or take a couple of months, right? Did you did you take any of your learnings in the Marines and apply that to your management career both at once year and then the subsequent years you've you've you've led teams? Anything that you you took from being in that environment to technology?

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Yeah, I think probably because by you know I was in for six years, so I made up I got up to the rank of sergeant. Um so I think delegating tasks to subordinates or in this case direct reports, and then trusting that they're going to be able to fulfill them without micromanaging them. Um that that was something that I took from the military. And another thing that surprisingly that that I took that I saw when I when I got to kind of corporate America, um something I learned when I was in the military that that I took with me is that you there's there's a human aspect to managing people. You know, that yes, there are numbers, yes, there are goals, yes, there are SLAs and all that stuff, but there's a human aspect, right? Things happen, you know, you've got all these different uh um different people, different backgrounds, different cultures, uh, different situations. Some people have kids, some people don't. And you know, there you have to have a human touch to to managing people. It's it's not all about the numbers.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Yeah, I think that's very insightful. Um, it in terms of people that make in that journey today, right? They've they've they've led to they've led um you know, orgs, they've built orgs from scratch. You know, I see this a lot in the ecosystem as well. Um, making that transition to leadership from a style sports perspective, let's let's say, let's focus there. Or in general, actually, were there any any kind of tools or or or books or or kind of you know, I don't know, podcasts, articles, knowledge centers that helped you in that journey of kind of individual contributor to management that you found particularly useful that's worth sharing?

SPEAKER_04 39:53

Wow. So I hate to say it, but in in that for that particular question, I'm probably not the best example. Um, you know, what I kind of just like a lot of admins, I just kind of happened upon Salesforce and then became an admin, and then just through my journey became you know senior admin. Um, but I think part of what got me to the management level was my experience when I was in the military, because you know, I manage teams in the military. Um, so I think just that natural ability to to work with people and and to bring people together and and uh accomplish goals and and to be able to delegate work and um to to be that responsible party. I I think that just naturally took me there. Um you know, when that first opportunity popped up, I wasn't looking. Um, you know, I got a call from from my friend uh that we worked with that I worked with previously, and and so you know, he thought that I would be good, and and you know, maybe he saw something in me um back when I was a senior admin and thought, hey, you know, he he'd probably be good for leading this. Um but I I think it was that if I had to suggest to someone, you know, some some YouTube videos or you know, links to sites to go and and how to get from you know individual contributor to you know running a Salesforce instance, uh probably not the best example, unfortunately. No worries, uh it did happen for me that way, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Well, there's there's no better experience than doing it, you'd be doing it real time, right? And doing it doing the job itself, right? I think you know, learn learning by doing is probably one of the best ways.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then, you know, uh just before I took that role, um I I was always like in um in grooming meetings and in requirement gathering, I was always the one asking questions and making suggestions and looking for ways to solve problems, and I was very outspoken on on that. Um and uh when we we when we did work together, uh he and I, you know, he saw some of that. So maybe you know maybe that helped a little bit. That's just that's me naturally, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah, I don't I don't think you give yourself enough credit. Um, I think you're just a little bit too humble, maybe. Um so Steve Jobs, I think it was Steve Jobs, um, he says the best managers are individual contributors who stepped up because no one else could manage. Um I think I think you kind of fit that description, right? You really knew your stuff, um, and you know, they pushed you into a management position, um, and you clearly have the empathy, right, to be, you know, to be a good manager. Um, so putting that aside, what about the other the other component of managing is right? So you have right your your seniors and you have your um your juniors or the people that report to you, but what about managing the business and their expectations? Any struggles there, right? Because obviously, right, you have to prioritize, you might have told one team no, or say, you know, next sprint.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

And and I think as well to to tag onto this question, especially without covering a whole episode on on just this topic, but especially navigating the pandemic at this time, right? You've got a new team, eight, nine months, right? You're finding your feet, and then the pandemic hits, and then going back to your point about empathy, etc., you know, it's just a wild time, right? So that piece as well would be interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah, not only switching to remote.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

Um yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the good thing in in in uh when when we to the remote thing, um I had worked remote before, so you know, I was used to working remote now managing. People remotely, I had never done before. Um, but I had worked remote before, so so really for me that wasn't a big issue. When when I moved from Atlanta to Dallas and I was going to the office in one share, um, it was new again for me going back to the office. So when the pandemic hit and I went back to working from home, it was like back to normal for me. Um, but um I think one of the challenges in in that particular, like in one share with with the managing portion, um so was great. Like I built my team from scratch, uh, so I got to know them very well, and we got like very close, we gelled very well together. Um I think maybe when things started to get more formalized and things started to ramp up, um trying to draw that fine line again. Okay, yes, we get along well, but I'm your boss. This needs to be done by Friday, little things like that. I mean, it was never an issue, but then those things present challenges, and um, you know, you have to sometimes you you have to be the bad guy, I guess. I don't know how else to say it, but I mean, you know, you have things that you have to, you know, people you have to respond to, uh, SLAs that you have to hit. In the beginning, it was just whenever we could do things, and then it kind of got to the point where okay, this has to be delivered, this has to be delivered, and it was just one thing after the other. So, so pushing, you know, going from, you know, hey, you know, we're kind of hanging out and getting stuff done and having a good time to start pushing to produce, to deliver, you know, making that transition. Uh again, it was the first time I was leading a Salesforce instance. So um that present a little bit of a challenge. Like not huge, but a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Got it. Um, so so in terms of um, you know, fast forward uh to present day, you've got another kind of four or five years on the belt, both leadership but also Salesforce. Um knowing what you know now, um what would you do differently in terms of um like actual implementation of success? It could be team building, uh, but you know, any any kind of if you had to tell Carlos of four or five years ago, you know, what would you tell him uh in terms of navigating this new new new project or hiring or whatever it might be?

SPEAKER_04 46:37

Um I think I probably would do like you guys were asking me, what I suggest to people to, you know, um that are thinking about moving from kind of the individual contributor into actually leading uh Salesforce instance or or or anything else that that they might be working on. Um I would do more research, I would talk to more people in the space. Like I have a um um my old boss when I was an admin that if this didn't happen so fast, where I went from you know senior admin to director, um, I think I probably would have been talking to him over time and and tell me how you got there and and you know what resources would you suggest to me? Um, you know, do my own Google searches and look for resources online and and kind of read up and and um I probably would have spent and I probably would tell myself at Dream Force because I've been to many Dream Forces and I'm going next week. Actually, I'm flying out in the morning, I think tomorrow, tomorrow's Monday. I'm playing out in the morning. Um, but you know, I I would say talk to some people that are that are doing it and uh you know ask questions.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

And I think I think the biggest takeaways I I get from listening to you is being naturally naturally um I don't know if I can say the pronounce the word right. Well you ask a lot of questions in general, right? You're uh in if you can do that, what's the word?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Inquisitive.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

Inquisitive, um naturally inquisitive. Um and and you know, curious, right? You know, I I I once uh was told by a former manager, um, you know, some sometimes you you're always like a detective, right? You always want to ask the hows, whys, why are we doing this, what do you want from the end goal out of this, you know, um and and talk about that transition to uh leadership, you know. I think this ecosystem is unlike any other period uh in terms of like an Ohana, you know, you could send a message to 50 directors, and I guarantee at least half of them would reply back to you. Um, you know, um, like you would reply to someone if they reached out, you know, hey Carlos, you know, I saw you make the transition. Can I grab five minutes of your time? Right, being proactive and seeking help, um, you know, this ecosystem really will give back. Um so you know, I would I would stress what you you mentioned because I know people are out there willing to help, right? Whether it's user groups, um, whether it's just being brave and sending someone a DM, right? Um and going for it.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

Um Yeah, I don't know if you remember or not, but the one of the uh meetups that we did, that that was actually kind of the thing that I was was talking about. And and I had uh quite a few people asking questions at that meetup. Um but there was one guy, uh don't ask me his name, I forgot his name because we haven't actually talked in a little while. Um, but for a few months after that, um, you know, he hit me up on LinkedIn, you know, every couple of weeks or so and would ask questions and hey, what do you think I should do here? How should I do this? Um, you know, what do you think about this opportunity? And you know, I probably told him more than he expected me to tell him. But for me, Salesforce has been great uh for my life, for my um professional development, and I want to pass that on, because why I pass it on to my son, and then he ended up you know having his own Salesforce uh instance in a school in the Caribbean. Um, but I want to pass it on because I want someone else to be able to do what I did, basically. So that for me, that's a measure of success. Did I help somebody else move on, move forward, move up, get better? If I did, even one person, then I'm successful.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

Love it. Um, and then just going back to the implementation, um, whilst you know you're kind of in this uh moment of reflection, um, going back to the implementation of Salesforce uh for one share. Um were there any were there any kind of light bulb moments um where it just kind of made sense and kind of clicked and was like here we go, this is you know, this is we've made it, we've been successful. Um, you know, we we did it the right way. It kind of clicked together.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

Um if there was a moment, uh yeah, probably the moment was when this email came out and said, okay, nobody has access to the old CRM anywhere anymore. You're now you know 100, because they were kind of swivel chairing between the two as we were building out and and migrating and stuff. Um, I think the moment when um when that email went out that everyone's access to the old CRM was gone and you don't do anything else anyway. Now everything is in Salesforce, and then nothing fell apart. No one, you know, lost their mind, and and you know, no one came over to my desk because you know we weren't remote at that time, but no one came over to my desk with a bat and started beating me over the head. This thing doesn't work. Um it was nice to be confident enough in the system to know that if we built it right, it was going to work, and uh and that's what happened.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

So um scale of one to ten, nice, easy one. Scale of one to ten, how happy were you uh with the outcome? Ten being elated, couldn't have done anything better, one being terrible.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

I would say eight. Okay, because I think um I don't know if I'd ever say ten, and I know it wasn't close to ten, so I wouldn't say nine. So I would say eight because there's always room for improvement. Uh and maybe some things were improved after I left. Um, just kind of the natural progression, right? As business continues, you see more things you need, you need to do more things. Uh, so you can always improve, but no matter what you do. Um, I mean, the beauty of Salesforce is that there's a hundred ways to do the same thing, right? Um yeah, that uh I lost my train of thought for a minute there. But um uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

Solidate, that's good.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

Solidate.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Right, but with no room for improvement. Yeah, room for improvement always. Yeah, yeah. Um so we always like to to kind of wrap up with, you know, where do you see the future of Salesforce, of the of you know, the CRM industry, uh, maybe of the healthcare or nonprofit space. You know, where do things uh where do you think things going and you know what are you most excited about?

SPEAKER_04 53:36

Um personally, I see like I know there's always ups and downs, you know. One year they laid off a couple few hundred people or a thousand or two thousand, I don't know. And then, you know, the next year they're hiring. I think I think Salesforce is here to stay, and I think it's um I think it's going to maintain for some time, it's going to maintain market share. And um still to this day, I recommend anyone, any young person or even old person. My sister is about to retire. You know, I already got my son into Salesforce, uh, but my sister's about to retire, and you know, she wants to do something and work from home. And I said, You should think about Salesforce. But I think it's going to be around for a while. Um, the fact that it's been uh uh iterated so much to the betterment of a lot of companies, I think that speaks a lot about it. Um it's definitely going to continue to provide um a way of life for for a lot of young people. Um one of the things I absolutely love about Salesforce, you don't need to go to college. You know, there's a lot of young people out there, they don't want to go to college. Oh, if you don't want to go, then don't go. There's careers that you can um get into uh and not have a college degree, like Salesforce. I don't have a college degree, but you know, I've been director of CRM technology, director of uh Salesforce, uh VP of technology, um, and all of it is due to Salesforce. So, yeah, I think it's gonna be around for a while. I think it's gonna do a lot of good things for a lot of people. It may have its ups and downs, but uh um I think it's on a good trajectory.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

So um it's interesting you say that because I think I think more recently, in maybe the past few months, very, very recently, this is a very recent thing that I've been hearing, is it's getting too big and too complex, and it's harder to get into it. Um and some people think the days of the accidental admin are coming to an end. Like you're not just going to stone into it. Um, I think it might have to do with data cloud, it's a really complex product, um, and a lot there. Um so what do you what are your thoughts on that? People are just getting a little nervous or any truth to it?

SPEAKER_04 56:07

No, no, I think there's some truth to it. Um, I mean, as it grows, it's it's it's more difficult. And I think um like I've I've had a couple of admins that were in previous jobs actually were Salesforce admins before they even got certified. I think those days are closer to being over. I think it's it's um or the accidental admin, those days are are short. Um, I think you have to make a conscious effort. I mean, even now, I think you if you're thinking about getting into it, you should make a conscious effort to do it, right? Um, you've got to do research, you've got to do studying, you've got to get the um the certifications, you have to stay up to date on new things, you know, AI and all this other stuff that's happening. Um, so I think it will be a little bit harder. Um, but I think Salesforce recognizes that um that the accidental admin is is probably part of the foundation of of the reason that you know it's success it's as successful as it is now. And I think you know, if it gets to the point where it's too difficult to be an accidental admin, that maybe they make some adjustments, you know, uh to help. Um, you know, they have like something I didn't even know they had, um, but a buddy of mine is actually part of it, is the Salesforce Military.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Um don't know what it's called, but like to help a uh a vet force, I think it's called.

SPEAKER_04 57:43

Yeah, yeah. So like I'm a vet, um, he's a vet, and and it actually helped him. Uh here's crazy thing is he was my boss, he was my boss at the company that I went to where I first discovered Salesforce and then became a Salesforce admin. And he's just reinvented himself because the industry we were in at that time when he was my boss is kind of dying. And I helped him get certified. So that you know, that for me was like the greatest thing in the world. Like my former boss, I helped him for like I don't know, six, eight months, 10 months to get ready for becoming a Salesforce admin. Now he's uh you know certified Salesforce admin. Um, but I think you know that there will continue to be opportunities. It might get a little bit harder, but I think Salesforce knows that they have to they have to continue to help us so that it can be uh enticing to all these other companies that don't have it that could benefit from it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

I I think the barrier barrier to entries, um obviously it's a bit more of my world, barrier to entry is a little bit higher for sure. Um I think we're already seeing merging of roles. So companies are now not only looking for an admin, they're looking for an admin with strong business now and skill sets. Um, you know, or or they're they're looking for uh devs that can also articulate themselves to the business, right? And not just be a hands-on keyboard resource that there might have been two, three years ago, right? They're looking for more, dare I say it, jack-of-all trades in terms of role roles, um and and individuals that jump onto that quickly uh will continue to thrive and grow, right, alongside the the continuous development, the continue, continued certs, networking, etc. Right. Um, that they'll be in a good spot. But I I think the the days of um just kind of having these siloed 100% roles are changing. Um obviously we'll go to Dreamforce next week. Uh this this episode will air a little bit after. Um, but Agent Force, right? Um, that is gonna have to, you know, that will change people's responsibilities. Um they're gonna have to adapt, right? It's gonna take away some of those uh that those you know, those those admins who focus more on the service side, right? It's gonna produce some of their day to data, they will have to make that pivot to new skill sets, right? To be project managers, uh, to BBAs, maybe to learn broader integration uh you know, tools like MullSoft, for example, right? To continue to demonstrate their value uh to an org. So it's interesting times. Um some might say, you know, 20 years on, maybe it's time for a little bit of shakeup, right? Um inject some new ideas and blood into the ecosystem. Um but I think um if you want something, you will get it, right? Um if if it's meant, if it if it's you know, I don't want to put it's meant to be or meant to be, you know, that's more like, oh, you have good luck. I don't believe in good luck personally, you make your own look, right? If you're adamant you want to be an admin, you'll be a goddamn admin more than that, right? So um I think I think I get asked that question all the time, and it's it goes down to how much do you really want it, right? Because it might take you 12, 18 months to get that first shot, but there is a ton of inputs that you can make um to get there, right? It's it's not impossible. Um so uh thanks, Carlos, uh, for your time today. Uh we really appreciate having you on the show.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

Um great being here.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

Hope you have fun, and I'm sorry to say the cowboys are still trailing behind.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

Um then it's better we did it during the game. This is probably less stressful than the game.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:38

Probably. Um safe travels to Dreamforce and um, you know, for me. You'll be there, right? I'll be there. We'll we'll get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

I'll look for you and I'll be there tomorrow morning, actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Yeah, we'll we'll get a well-deserved beer and and maybe the FaceTime once we're there to say hello. But um for our listeners, um, please do not forget to subscribe to the CRM Success Show for more episodes featuring inspiring leaders like Carlos, uh, who are shaping the future uh as well as the present uh for CRM. Uh you can also follow us on LinkedIn uh and YouTube uh for the latest updates and exclusive content. Uh thank you again. It's been a pleasure, and we hope to have you tune in soon.